the gun is now correct, then shall it be buff accurately to irl?
There isnt admag bug report at the time, most sources included are for xm274, he made the bug report 2-3 years ago. Read the first sentences. They refuse to buff the “at the time” hstvl because they believe it couldnt do it
Here’s a more simple version.
The XM274 was confused as the main weapon of the HSTVL / RDFLT at the time which it is not and we know that as fact now.
XM884 and XM885 are the ammo for the XM274
The HSTVL and RDFLT uses the ADMAG Cannon. The ammo types are AAAC-1, AAAC-2 and HE Fuse ammo
(XM884 and XM885 should be renamed)
The current in-game penetration values are closely aligned with the AAAC-1 Ammo type.
AAAC-2 should be introduced into the game as it has better penetration values and would more closely match 12.0 BR vehicles.
AAAC-1 values from Conraire
AAAC-2
Current in-game
2 Likes
As i understand it it has always had the same gun, just the wrong name. so the XM274 isn’t a gun it has ever had and thus sources with that gun wouldn’t be able to be used.
If there are sources for the ADMAG and it’s ammo then feel free to make a report for it.
If that is correct then i agree and a report should be made.
This would then count as a suggestion and not a bug report as adding/removing ammo types is at the DEVS digression.
This is true. Do you at least acknowledge that the current ammo used on the HSTV/RDF are to say the least underwhelming as a 11.7 BR vehicle? The post pen damage is pretty insignificant and that is if it penetrates at all
Massively underperforming*
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I haven’t played it in a while but when i did it performed slightly lower than average compared to my other light tanks in general, but not by much.
Checking statshark it has a better both kills per spawn and kills per death than the 2S38 (at their respective BR’s) that everyone keeps ranting about being to overpowered and wanting increased in BR, but i don’t know how much that is to go by and is admittedly of topic.
But in general there is SOOO much more that goes into balancing a vehicle than just armor vs gun that it feels a bit reductive to say that it’s performing bad because it isn’t getting kills.
Not as bad as my boy the freebrams
The Abrams series of vehicles are 90% correct according to available source material.
Leopard 2A7V is missing several hundreds(!) of millimeters across a lot of it’s surfaces, it’s quite likely the most underperforming MBT in War Thunder.
2 Likes
id say like 60-70% or so
4 Likes
Rough depiction of the areas which aren’t correctly modelled:
Turret ring should offer better protection than it currently does, but even if corrected to historical levels, it wouldn’t make any noticeable difference given that all of it’s rivals would still have sufficient penetration to go right through.
IPM1 onwards should have improved mantlet protection, but again, not really to the level where it would make a noticeable difference.
SEP and SEP v2 should have improved turret side protection against chemical energy munitions, but once more, wouldn’t change a whole lot given that you’re facing APFSDS 95% of the time.
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I dont believe that having an extra 540mm of composite armor would only offer 60mm extra KE protection(CE protection maybe is overperforming). This is the case where either the document isnt entirely correct(low balling the performance) or maybe thats how it is(which i find unbelievable), given that composite armor improvement going from M1 to M1A1 was quite substaintial(better armor array, material and ~2.2x the composite) does not give ONLY 60mm KE(again, CE overperforming maybe is true ~800mm CE is more likely instead of 950/1000 on M1A1)
it could resist around 2s38 type round, over ofc not, but thats huge for an mbts to not get kill/disable frontally)
i believe that side turret armor of newer M1A2 would have sufficient protection against lower caliber APFSDS round(like 3ubm22, dm13) and yes CE protection would be substaintially increase(iirc about 200-250% more)
the thing is about the turret protection on M1A2 models, which im pretty sure is base on swedish trial M1A2 armor, they state that the export m1a2 they recieve has less protection than the actual domestic version of the US M1A2. Which mean that the current M1A2s has the “incorrect” armor protection(the actual number ofc idk, but it would definitely go around 700-800mm ke range, rather than just about 650mm ke
3 Likes
Alot of people use 2S38s in top tier as well, I don’t see an option to see the 2S38’s normal 10.3 to 11.3 spread KD ratio.
I didn’t say it performs bad, it’s just a problem vs Leopards specifically. I do think the option for the AAAC2 would be a great benefit for kill reliability though.
Guys keep it on topic, lets not mention the Abrams any further
Skill issue
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You’ll have to explain that one to me there Einstein.
What does player skill have to do with a vehicle under performing compared to source material?
ADMAG is the correct gun on the HSTV-L, and despite ADMAG not being able to fire the Delta 6 with 430+ mm pen, the current APFSDS is absolutely underperforming:
It should still achieve M774 level performance in both penetration and damage - the date from the HIMAG testing is 1979, when the HSTV-L was also made, 4 years before the 75 mm XM274 (in 1983) was created.
This is also confirmed by STGN, who reported the XM274->ADMAG name change. All it really does is remove the capability to fire Delta 6, but the current HSTV-L’s cannon still has massive underperformance for its APFSDS.
From my understanding, (I could be wrong)
Delta 6 was a second generation XM885 round for the XM274, not the ADMAG. This was a consideration for the LAV XM274 program for the Marines.
XM885 and XM884 physically do not fit in the ADMAG since they are a longer round.
ADMAG had two different sabot rounds and one fuse round, the AAAC1, AAAC2 and an unnamed fuse round.
In game the AAAC1 more closely matches the current shell the HSTVL/RDFLT uses.
I’d like to advocate for the use of the AAAC2 shell which has a 3 lb penetrator instead of the 2 lb penetrator the AAAC1 uses as discussed in the DARPA to Ares letter.
There’s mention of the AAAC Fuse round in documents but I can’t find a name for it. There’s also a selection for the HE round in the HSTVL
tbf I think its important to acknowledge how there are lots of sources saying the xm247 is the gun on the HSTVL
They’re wrong, I was defending that until that bug report came out and I researched further. The XM247 was developed from the ADMAG ARES gun as a potential option to be used on a LAV chassis for the marines. That was the only instance when the gun was fitted to a vehicle that I know of. Here’s a picture of said vehicle
Note the shape difference right before the end of the telescoping cannon. It’s oval. XM274 is oval and ADMAG is rectangular.
Here is a pic of the HSTVL, you can clearly see the difference
