Well yeah I’m not right on the 12.0 mark but every point I’ve made still stands and not a single person has given a valid counter argument and I’ve fought against enough of them to know roughly how they work. They just want the Abrams to have the best of everything, even if it’s not historically accurate.
Like one guy saying its bullshit how the Turret Ring can get knocked out by penetrating the lower plate, then another guy saying the turret ring is too high and needs to be lower in the hull… 2 counterintuitive arguments.
That’s due to the tank design and I’ll let ya in on a hint, most MBT’s can be knocked out from the front with an auto cannon. I think it’s absured the T-90 can only go 4kph backwards… but it’s how it was made. Just like the Abrams was made with no armor on the upper plate.
All I’ve done is point out the benefits the Abrams has and how they far outweigh the negatives.
You want a rational discussion, but you go straight to belittling any opinion that counters your own. Hit me back with some actual points instead of being a child and talking shit with your discord buddies.
You guys have some valid points, like the lack of competitive SPAA and HSVL’s turret ring… but I’ll say it until the day I die, the Abrams is fine.
Isn’t Sweden better due to having an equal amount of better MBTs?
Considering it can’t pen the UFP of a BVM, I wouldn’t consider it a lolpen.
As for the whole pantsir thing, I agree. Currently all SPAA is underpowered throughout nearly every BR. I also find it amusing that the moment SPAA is decent, people freak out about how OP it is.
Sweden has 4 including the 2A6.
USA has… 6 to choose from, 7 if you consider Leclerc armor good enough to be called meta [M1A1].
One more with the premium tank.
It can the turret though, and yes all nations’ players EXCEPT USA shoot the BVM’s turret or idler wheel.
It’s cause no one has taken the time to sit down and figure out how to actually play CAS.
CAS hasn’t had equivalent SPAA until recently, and that’s at 10.7 and below. Gaijin finally balanced SPAA & CAS 1.0 - 10.7, but 11.7+ remains OP cause the SPAA available is bad for the CAS they’re facing.
You know what Pantsir’s actual equivalent jet is? Harriers using GBUs instead of AGMs, Q-5L, and Tornado GR1 [the weakest engines one].
Those are the CAS perfectly equivalent to Pantsir’s capabilities out of testing, and one of them isn’t allowed to use AGM-65s if it’s to be equivalent.
Otherwise all other methods out-range Pantsir. GBUs on supersonic aircraft with good engines out-range Pantsir, even the Tornado ASSTA though that’s 1km away from not out-ranging Pantsir.
I have to disagree with you there. 5 out of 10 deaths are from spawning blind over clouds without seeing the pantsir’s missile incoming. Not enough energy to dodge 5 seconds after spawning. 3 out of 10 deaths are from fighters that spawned and immediately throw out radar missiles while I’m trying to AGM spaas. 2 out of 10 deaths are from lack of skill. If you have any advise, I’d be happen to hear em.
Tunguska is also at 10.7 BR. I think Adats should be 11.3 since it does get ground kills once in a while. It’s no where close to being on par with Pantsir
Most of us have being playing this game long enough to know that’s not the real trend in the game-play. Abrams loses turret ring, engine and bridged every single time. Leos, type10s, t80s, even leclers and merkavacs will shot back at you 40% of time if you don’t kill in one. Abrams 1500HP engine is not good if you cant retreat, amazing gun is not great if you cant retaliate and NO Abrams turret armor is non existence. Only really bad players that cant aim. The only way an Abrams turret is strong is looking straight at the target that’s about to shoot you. There is no wiggling the turret to try to escape a shot; a shot that simple cant afford to take since it sucks as a MAIN BATTLE TANK! 65 to 72tons of gaijin’s cheese burgers and McDonald apparently. Also US tank crews are one of the few nations that wear full body armor in operation of the tank. Last time I check is pretty effective at stopping shrapnel from hitting main body compartments but it all comes down to the same thing. No matter how many years people bring this up, how many post and arguments come out they always tend to answer the other side and ignore US.
Example: F14 too strong-- Nerf move up on BR, F15E engine too fast nerf engine, aim120 too strong-- Nerf aim120, T90 fuel tank is exploding “fix it” T-series fuel tank now don’t blow up the tank. I mean this can go for long but you get the point. Any ways doesn’t matter, soon the moderator is going to close this post as well since is a recurring thing and they just suppress it or choose to ignore it.
So your claim is that CAS players have a skill issue.
You’re right, CAS players tend to have skill issues.
I’ve yet to die to a single Pantsir while running CAS, cause all the CAS out-range Pantsir.
Once when I was being a drone, and another when I was trying to die to get back into a Leclerc.
I turn and prep my climb.
I set my targeting pod up, weapon select if needed, and then climb at mach 1 staying semi-perpendicular to the battlefield where my goal is ~19km away, more if I’m using fire & forget munitions.
Since I’ve mained GBUs, 19km away is good for GBU prep.
For fire & forget I’d probably go 25km.
Altitude needs to be above 8000, above 9500 with F&F munitions.
I haven’t learned the max altitude of Pantsir’s missile yet, so… yeah. I just know above 8000 it can’t hit perpendicular targets that are going nearly mach 1.
You do realise every single tank in the game can be breached?
You’ve got a 38kph reverse speed… The T-90 has 4kph reverse speed and even the T-80 can’t reverse as quick as an Abrams.Neither can the Leopard or most MBT’s for that matter.
Welcome to top tier where armor only works if you’re facing the shooter. Blame bad CQC map design with such large teams instead of calling for unrealistic buffs. I’m not on here asking for the Challenger to get extra armor or speed… but I am very vocal about map design because most issues people complain about come from it.
This is a legitimate argument which if is true, should be addressed.
Because it was unrealistically fast… it’s still hands down the best Top Tier jet in the game currently with one of the best Radars that can share data link with 8 missiles that I can tell you from experience shits all over the SU-27SM that has an inferior range and can only data link 2 missiles.
Again, you guys have some valid points, like the lack of competitive SPAA and HSVL’s turret ring, lack of body armour on US tank crews (if it’s a real thing)… but I’ll say it until the day I die, the Abrams is fine. You’ve gotta take the good with the bad on every single vehicle in the game and ya’ll are refusing to take the bad and call it a “balancing issue” when I’ve pointed out time and time again that the Abrams has some negatives… like ALL tanks… but it also has a lot of positives… like all tanks… sounds pretty balanced to me.
It works a treat, I even do it in my A-10, granted against the 2S6 and not the Pantsir and I’m yet to bring my Japanese F-16 into GRB but if something as slow and bulky as an A-10 can climb high enough to avoid a 2S6 while still getting in Maverick range, I can guarantee an F-16 or F-15E can.
As a Pantsir player, most Pantsir players just sit in spawn aiming at the enemy air spawn. Even if you’re noticed when you first spawn in, pull a 180 while diving to tree level, fly 16km away from the battlefield and side climb to about 10,000 metres. Works especially well if you can sit at tree top and get on the enemy side and climb from their side.
Oh my bad man, I mean really sorry for my comment since I don’t have a clue what I am talking about how about you, in you own words describe the reason why US top tier has being doing so bad for the past 3 years now? Enlighten me with your expertise, since you believe that game is in such balance state. Show me your logic.
I am already expecting the skill issues on part of players… watch
Okay? what is your point here? all i hear is *(you do this and then do that, and then that and this and this other thing) Pansier player, oh look silly bombs and mavericks point click, point click 6 missiles later all your blah blah blah is pointless. There was one pansier now there is 2 or more plus the jets flying overhead uncontested clapping your team and by the time you land and re-arm game is over. Really pointless to have argument with people like this.
See that doesn’t really show me anything, you’ve got a near 2:1 KD (if not higher) in all those Tanks so you can clearly play them effectively as they are, even the ADATS. Yes the Win Rate is below 50% but as I’ve said before, I believe a lot of that is to do with how many players play Russia causing Russia to be on both teams a lot of the time. For example, If a game is Russia and USA VS Russia and Germany (for example sake only) and the Russia/USA Team looses, the USA Win Rate goes down while the Russia win rate stays neutral (From Losing with USA and Winning with Germany). Then there’s the popularity of the Abrams overall drawing in new players with no experience that just buy the ClickBait driving down the win rate. The amount of times I’ve been playing my Russian Tanks and we’ve just demolished the USA Team because we’re essentially fighting half a team once all the Click Bair users die and leave is criminal. Then I’ve had the opposite happen to me when playing Japan teamed up with USA and half the USA players leave after a single death. It doesn’t happen every game but it happens enough for it to be noticeable. You’re clearly a good player but a few good players can very rarely carry a team of inexperienced premium players. Same thing happens with the TURMS and T-80U but to a lesser extent 'cause they’re not as popular IRL as the Abrams thus don’t draw as many new players to them.
Plus when Tanks was first introduced, nearly everyone was playing Germany or Russia. So a lot of the accounts with the years of experience are currently in Leopard 2A6’s or T-80BVM/T-90M’s and yes a percentage of them would have switched to USA, a large percentage of them would have also switched from Germany to Russia and visa versa or tried out one of the newer countries.
That’s just my experience though. I’ve got no actual data to back it.
But yet again, instead of having a “Rational discussion” with me, you get defensive, crack the shits and wonder why the moderators delete topics like this. Because you become hostile towards anyone with a different opinion than yourself. Instead of actually giving counter arguments you show a stat card and cry “but win rate” like a child. Talk to me. Come back with actual talking points or counter arguments like an adult.
If you read literally ANY of my other comments I’ve said over and over again how I agree that USA needs a better top tier SPAA to compete with the Pantsir. It’s one of the few things I actually agree with US mains about because it’s an extremely valid argument.
In reality it’s pointless arguing with people like yourself because you’re just making assumptions on my character without taking the time to read any of my previous comments for context. Just picking and choosing what you want to win an argument that doesn’t even exist because I agree with you.
I wasn’t even talking to you so what’s the issue?
All I was doing there was trying to help another player deal with the game as it is now. Yes the Pantsir is unbalanced and no you shouldn’t HAVE to climb to space to deal with just 1. But in the current meta as the game works right now, it works more than just flying in guns blazing.
I think people forget it’s a beam rider and how trash they can be at times. Fly behind cover or on the edge of its range and they’ll either lose control of the missile or it’ll sway that much it’ll struggle to hit anything.
IMO the Strela can be a must more difficult SPAA to defeat. Same with Heli Launched IR Missiles with IRCCM. They can be relentless.
The issue is that it’s modeled incorrectly, not that it’s weak; you would know that if you had read what I had said. And the way you went around saying “Boo hoo” is childish and shows just how mature you are.
BTW: yes it can be killed by fuel explosions and ammo-racking, just not the front fuel tanks
