Rational discussion of the status of American's Top tier Groud Realistic Battles

As a player who has been playing War Thunder since 2016, and as someone who primarily plays the American ground forces, I feel deeply concerned and perplexed about the current state of the American ground forces. This article aims to explore the current situation of the U.S. ground forces in War Thunder and why it has come to this state.

To demonstrate my qualification to discuss this issue and proceed with the following points, I will first share my personal experience and lineup.

As one of the earliest nations introduced in War Thunder ground forces, or rather, a “major nation,” the U.S. has always been known for its unique vehicles and large player base. However, in recent years, with updates and changes to the game mechanics, American top-tier vehicles have increasingly found themselves in awkward situations, often feeling powerless. I’ve heard many complaints from players saying that American players are unwilling to use ground vehicles and that they are often considered “noobs.” This confuses me, so I decided to start discussing this point: why are players reluctant to use ground vehicles?

The M1 series main battle tanks still make up the core of my top-tier lineup, but with each update, their stats and performance in the game environment have worsened. Weak frontal armor and poorly designed internal layouts make M1 tanks easy to disable or destroy in most engagements. Although the M829A2 is one of the most powerful shells in the game, as a “major nation,” the U.S. often faces swarms of Leopard 2s, T-90s, and T-80s. It is nearly impossible to ensure every shot effectively damages these tanks, especially with the introduction of spall liners and detailed armor mechanics, which often result in penetrating hits failing to cause significant damage. Meanwhile, the M1 series has not received any armor upgrades or internal layout optimizations with updates. On the contrary, the detailed internal layout changes seem to be the final nail in the coffin. Although the recent reduction of reload time to 5 seconds for the M1 series and better shells for models like the M1A1HC are welcome improvements, they are still far from enough to save the M1 lineup.

Next is the HSTV-L and light tanks. As one of the few top-tier American light tanks, the HSTV-L used to perform quite well, boasting a good automatic cannon and excellent mobility. However, since the “Firebirds” major update, the HSTV-L was given a massive “Horizontal aiming drive,” which significantly reduced its combat effectiveness. It can now even be disabled by a 12.7mm machine gun targeting that thing.

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Then there’s the ADATS anti-air system. A few updates ago, ADATS was still classified as a tank destroyer due to its 20mm cannon and highly effective missile launcher with 900mm penetration. However, the lack of a stabilizer and the need to stop to fire missiles severely hinders its performance. Additionally, its fire control and radar systems are mediocre, with limited functionality in adverse weather and a maximum radar range of just 10km. This leaves it completely outclassed in top-tier battles by missiles with 20km range and jets exceeding Mach 1.2. By comparison, the Tunguska, with better fire control and armament, sits at BR 10.7, while ADATS is placed at 11.7. This disparity raises serious questions. Whether compared to the ITO-90M or the Pantsir-S1, the ADATS is often at a clear disadvantage.

In summary, when a vehicle is at a disadvantage in most scenarios, players will naturally prefer other, more enjoyable ways to play the game. This often means using vehicles like the HSTV-L or other light tanks to quickly earn the points needed to spawn aircraft, or simply returning to the hangar to queue for the next match. It’s well known that U.S. aircraft remain some of the most devastating CAS (close air support) options in War Thunder. As previously mentioned, players typically opt for the most enjoyable experience, which is why most American players tend to prioritize aircraft like the F-16C and F-15E. However, the high spawn costs often deter players. To earn enough spawn points for aircraft (a maximum of 896), without relying on light tanks, you must destroy at least 3-4 vehicles or capture and assist in the first 3-4 minutes of the match. This is extremely challenging for an average player, especially given the disadvantage most ground vehicles face. Even when you finally earn enough points to deploy an F-16C or F-15E, the enemy often has better SPAA (self-propelled anti-aircraft) systems and countermeasures in place. The most frustrating part is that when you finally take to the skies in your F-16C/F-15E, a Pantsir-S1 might already have launched a near-unavoidable missile at you, often without triggering RWR alerts (a 70-point SPAA trading for an 896-point aircraft – what a “deal,” isn’t it?).

When most players opt for air vehicles instead of ground vehicles, the balance of victory in ground battles inevitably tips in favor of the enemy. The remaining ground players are left with limited options. As the saying goes, “Tanks are the cornerstone of ground battles; everything is built upon this foundation. When the cornerstone crumbles, so does the victory structure.”

Additionally, to achieve a “better gaming experience,” players often invest considerable time, effort, and even money to master various weapons and loadouts. Meanwhile, the Pantsir-S1 can effortlessly shoot you down with just a mouse click. This disparity is understandably unacceptable for most players.

Such scenarios occur almost universally in any top-tier match, with virtually no exceptions.

10 Likes

Spawn a tank, simple as. I don’t see how the Russian WR is supposed to be good. Pansir and CAS rarely win games, MBTs do.

ADATS is higher due to the dual purpose missiles.

Yes, we needs new top tier spaa for all nations along side larger air spaces over the maps.

Depends. If the pilots are good, they can turn the tide. Sadly, most either rush head first into spaa or suicide into whoever killed their tank.

US got hit by a 1-2 punch and hasnt recovered since. They lost complete air domination then got premium spammed all within less than a year.

I don’t think ADATS can do a good job with dual-use missiles, both auxiliary equipment and radar, Tunguska is still much better.

no matter how good the pilot is, he chooses to be the F16C/F15E for the purpose of CAS, then he has to go into the war zone, and no one can do it without making mistakes…

Isn’t it a well-acknowledged fact within War Thunder that Russia’s high WR and excellent gameplay experience have always been recognized?

How high does Russia’s win rate need to be for you to be satisfied? Or do you think Russia still lacks something to conquer top-tier games?

Perhaps what you need is an Apocalypse Tank? Lmao

It’s more likely, just like in the case of German WW2 Tanks, that due to the popularity of a specific vehicle a higher amount of inexperienced players go to them. The Abrams is not noob friendly and many aren’t interested in using SPAA (of which is outclassed when brought up with Modern jets). America is a victim of popularity, I would say.

3 Likes

It can do a much better job at anti-tank than a 2s6 can. That is why.

If they get impatient and greedy, they will for sure get taken out. US jets are able to do their cas duties outside of effective pantsir range. Of course the small air map size limits this but still. We need better spaa and larger air maps.

According to your own chart, Russian top tier win rates isnt even the top 3 with just below top tier being the 3rd worst.

Pretty much. Germany has the same issue in the mid ranks. late ww2 german tanks are very popular so they end up with a lower average player skill. Once the US got the the abrams, they took on a huge amount of people because the abrams is such a popular tank.

That’s an interesting statement. It might also be one of the reasons why the U.S.A’s win rate has consistently remained low.

As someone who plays top tier USA, Germany, Russia, UK and Japan with a 2013 account, I can pretty comfortably say that US vehicles are fine.

Yes they 100% need a better SPAA on the same level as the Pantsir or even the FlakRakRed but the MBT’s and Light Tanks are fine.

Russia doesn’t even get a light tank in top tier. Yes the 2S38 is able to be used in top tier but I don’t think premium vehicles should count. Imo the 2S38 needs a nerf anyway but that’s another topic.
Japan is also very limited in options, it’s just lucky its few options are good.

Try playing the Challenger’s in top tier, with the same ADATS that’s an issue for US, then you’ll truly understand the meaning of lackluster.

I can agree with you on the lack of a competitive SPAA, but honestly I think US has one of, if not the best all round top tier line up in the game.
You get 2 very beefy 12.0 MBT’s with one of the best rounds in the game that is immune to ammo rack and fuel tank explosions, a decent Light Tank that can quite easily one shot MBT’s let alone what it can do with 2-3 shots, a great CAS/Fighter in the F-16A if you want to stay at BR 12.0, the best fighter in the game atm with the F-15E that also has excellent CAS options and one of if not the best helicopters in the game with the Apache that can carry 16 ATGM’s while also having 4 very capable IR Missiles.

There are plenty of other nations I personally would like to see expanded on (even nations I don’t play such as Israel (who’s best SPAA is 10.0) and Italy (best SPAA is Otomatic at 11.3 with no missiles) well before US is looked at.

But that’s just my opinion.

Are you sure you’ve ever used the AGM-65 on the F-16C/F-15E, or played in top-tier matches? If so, please share your game version with me.

I’ll post the win rate chart website in the comments below. I hope you’ll seriously consider whether you should take back what you said.

And I feel like Russia’s win rate is largely due to how many people play Russia. Every single game has Russia in it, sometimes on both teams. So in games that have Russia on both teams, their win rate stays the same regardless while all country’s on the losing team get pushed down.

If you’re not climbing to space and diving down on the enemy team from the stratosphere specifically targeting enemy SPAA then you’re playing Jet ATGM’s wrong.
Again coming from someone who has both the F-16 and the Pantsir, diving from space works nearly every time.
Even if the Pantsir see’s you, you’ll be moving so fast that if you break off and fly 90* to the Pantsir to the ground you’ll be nearly impossible to hit allowing you to fly out of range, climb and do it again.

The Pantsir is good and has a good range, but at the end of the day it’s still a beam riding missile. It’s range is only true under perfect conditions. If you’re flying mach jesus, low to the ground or high up at 8-10k’s away, not flying directly at it, you’re quite difficult to hit.

So, do you have ADATS?

It looks like they now have a good win rate. It also looks like that happened just about 2 weeks ago.

Yes. I used to main the gr7 with agm65g until i unlocked the f16’s agm65s.

If we could get a model change on the SEPv2, a turret ring update and a bulkhead update, that would be major progress in it self.

I unlocked it but they added a spaa before i bought it so i just sort of left it. Its the US tech tree so i use jets for anti air with the aim9m.

I still dont disagree with the sentiment that it is isnt great at anti air.

You yourself know that ADATS is not good, but why do you still think it can be better than 2s6?

I fail to see your point, please elaborate

Because of its anti tank ability. 2s6 has an edge in anti air while the adats is much better at anti tank.

US just needs a new top tier spaa, same with everyone.

very beefy 12.0 MBT? Are you serious? The M1A2 received a faulty steering gear after the update, which means once you’re hit, you’re almost guaranteed to be destroyed, and all you can do is wait to die