you literally just disproved your point
all of these are saying that it CAN be added if it was used experimentally or is possible
but you are trying to claim that they are saying it MUST be added which is blatantly false
and again none of these are about HMD
the rule cant stand because it doesnt exist
if it did both of those would have been added with HMD
because it was discussed and well known on the forums that both of them tested HMD well before they were added
The rule still stands if you don’t have proof that the developers are aware of it existing and that they then denied it. Anything else is an excuse, and no, discussions on forums don’t amount to anything.
I dont think you understand reality
that “rule” never existed
its just something you made up to buff your plane
I dont care if you somehow convinced yourself that its the truth but it has never been an actual rule dictating additions to the game
I prefer having an historical MICA compared to fake additional missiles. Having a missile with a bit more energy compared to 2 more of them when the meta favors short range would have been a straight nerf though.
Taking things out of context is nice and all, but at the time :
Were it for me, we would have gone with a F2 variant with fixed MICA (shorter boost and not the Cx of a washing machine) and i was myself undecided on the HMD
Twist it how you want, what i said at the time and considering the context was quite reasonable and i stand by it. Less endurance for Rafale, for a moderate range buff, with an airframe that wasn’t as busted as it is now
EDIT : wait that’s even worse, you didn’t even read the date properly… Rafale was not even in the dev server at the time X)
And in the following messages, a lot of “french mains” are discussing the amount of missiles it can carry. Some are more reasonable than others, but not everyone agrees on the amount it should get. No room for @FeetPics argument about “secret agreement in the french community”’
Yeah, we’d prefer that too for the AMRAAM, Aim-9M and Brimstones
Nah, I can be and have been wrong in the past, difference is I dont go around lying about it knowingly
I was and still am not lying, as i was clearly not in favor of having 8 missiles. I stand by what i said in that very post considering the context of the time.
Rafale was also just a leak when the post was written, so accusing me of defending it for being OP while it was not in game is… interesting, to say the least
And for the proof :
Screenshot taken by wrecking during the dev server, notice anything with the date ?
When did i mention a “vast majority”, i said people were split on the matter. I won’t go into name calling, but calling me a liar continuously while twisting my words left, right and centre is getting quite tiring.
you’re saying that we SHOULD see HMD for F-15A or F-14A/B but there is nothing that allow such implementation in Community Bug Reporting System so there can’t be any implementation of those,…
you’re trying to put words in my mouth too,… i told your lies are lies, because the rule exists and have been used for Rafale, as it have been in the past for way too many things to count.
but if you’re feeling the need to be bratty about it,… maybe you’ll have enough energy to create the bug-report/suggestions of HMD for F-15A & F-14A/B, and therefore being YOURSELF a user of the said rule.
now,… i have other things to do than baby-sitting,…
M8, you gotta do a better job keeping track of your lies, this is getting embarassing…
You “knew it would be OP” the moment it was added, but somehow didnt know it would be “as OP as it was” and felt fine still advocating for buffs despite knowing it would be OP already? So you’re admitting to openly supporting overbuffing it despite “already knowing it would be OP”, or are you still just making stuff up to appear more reasonable now that the Rafale mains image has been comprehensively destroyed by your collective unreasonableness and more details coming out over time of your collective lies and bad faith arguments over the last year?
We knew it would be OP or badly modelled, read the whole sentence please
Considering the track record on french stuff one year ago, i genuinely thought it would be the second option.
Note: sidegrade to the current 2nd best plane in the game (stat-wise).
Not too bad, if you ask me.
Otherwise completely agreed.
Ah yes, cuz the M2K5F was just an absolute suffer bus, as was the M2KCS4/5 🙄
Any reasonable person would take a “wait and see” approach before requesting pre-emptive buffs if their opinion was that itd be either OP or badly modelled, but thats not really y’alls M.O in hindsight
Either I misspoke or misquoted you, sorry about that mistake.
Quite honestly it’s a pointless discussion
Some people are admitting Rafale is OP as it currently stands (try finding that in the russian ones for KH38 and LMUR btw) and you go back to old posts discussing its future implementation in the game to justify your accusation on the entire french community being unreasonable
You are aware discussing its implementation on the forums does nothing right ? You can’t bug report something that does not exist in game
M2KC S5 was quite good, but soon powercrept
M2K 5F was the exception.
Agreed, the damage y’all have done to the game is done, we wont get this year back, and the future of air battles is likely ruined as well
By what??? At its BR range its the KDR/KPG/WR king of fighter jets since SS started counting stats, which is only 2025, but until recently the ADF was 12.7 and the MiG-29 is still 12.7 as well, and those are the only 2 jets you could possibly be referring to, so clearly it hasnt had a limited time in the sun if its still performing top of its class 3 years later.
I’m actually surprised it hasnt gone up to 13.0 yet considering how good its been all this time.
F-14A was added in June
M2K in September (better FM and better close range missile) => In that patch i would consider it the best or among the best with MLD and F-14
It was powercrept in december by F-16A (which was the UFO flight model at the time) and Mig-29 in the long range department.
Quantity being a quality of its own, it is to be noted that M2K has less missiles than both, with the magic II being a strength while 530D not so much
Not the topic to discuss it further, feel free to go to the m2k thread though.
The F-16A flight model was limited to below 9G at the time and the old Mirage 2000 flight model was superior at low speed in terms of turn rate. Pre-turn rate nerf, there was nothing in the game that would keep up in low speed fight if the player knew to toggle to sim controls.
The Mirage 2000 got “powercrept” into being equal to the other top flight models in the game and was held back by only having 4 missiles vs 6 on the other planes. It was never actually bad or put in the same relative situation that the Rafale has put everything else in the game.
Once IRCCM missiles were added, both the F-16 and MiG-29 flight models were changed in such a way that the Mirage 2000 would win even easier and faster at low speeds.
Never said it was at the same level, but it got outpaced by the competition, as every plane does. M2K was quite well balanced actually.
Point being, before Rafale’s addition, nothing indicated clearly that we would reach this level of imbalance, so coming back on a year old message to prove that I or any other one on that thread at that time were unreasonable is pointless. The same discussions were taking place on EFT, and are now taking place for F22 and SU57, or any plane coming in the future really.
Besides and as i said earlier, forum discussions on vehicles not in game don’t have any consequence on the devs decision, except maybe for the suggestion page, which mind you was filled with F1 and F2 info. The devs decided to go for F3R straight away. Why ? Who knows. Do I like it ? No. Does the community likes it ? Still No. Was anyone discussing the Rafale during the month of November of 2024 responsible for that situation ? Still nope.
No, the actual point here is that nothing indicated it would be bad, as both its predecessors were already performing above average. The french community is constantly pretending they’re the worst treated community in WT when its demonstrably false, and has been for at least 3 years when it comes to air battles.
It also doesn’t change the fact that for the last year AFTER the Rafale was added, the French community has been doing everything in their power to try to pretend the Rafale was not OP and NEEDED more buffs because it was at risk of falling into irrelevancy, and you are out here pretending that no, actually, the french community has been split on the matter of the Rafales ahistorical buffs when that is demonstrably a lie.
There has never been a community in the history of WT forums that has been this tight-nit, exclusionary, and dead-set on overbuffing an aircraft that is and was already massively overperforming, likely more than any other aircraft in WT history, and has been caught repeatedly lying to try to get this done, with just about 0 public pushback from “the french community”. As a matter of fact, just about anyone who has dared to criticize the Rafale in any way or call for nerfs for it have been attacked in various ways regardless of how much they may actually like the jet itself. The community is a collective cancer to this game. I’m honestly impressed some of the bug reporting members have not had their ability to bug report revoked for how many times they’ve been caught knowingly lying in bug reports.
