Do you think it’ll stay like that forever?
Honestly, the thing the EFT is “missing” is any real notable advantage at all.
The EFT is a great jet in-game when compared to other top tier jets. It has one of the top FM, its one of 2 airframes that can supercruise, it has a good quantity of CM’s (tho the quality is pretty trash), its sensor suite is competitive (slightly subpar radar, but full sphere RWR + MAWS), and its missiles are pretty middle of the pack as well in quality/count.
Other jets do have their own unique pros and cons for the most part as well, which allows them to play to their strengths and weaknesses when fighting amongst themselves.
When you compare the Rafale to the EFT though, it becomes pretty obvious that the Rafale is massively undertiered.
- Rafale has the functionally superior FM
- Rafale has the better weapons (both missiles and guns)
- Rafale has the better sensors
To add to that, the game effectively panders to the Rafale. Notching is much more effective than it should be, while the Rafale is the best jet at notching at all alts and all speeds, both offensively and defensively to boot, and multipath remains cartoonishly good as well for fights at low alt. To make matters worse, the only thing that actually “checks” multipathing are high alt top down missile shots, and the Rafale is by FAR the best high alt jet in-game.
What this all means is:
- You aren’t beating the Rafale in BVR, because the minor range advantage you enjoy in the EFT is nullified by the Rafale being both offensively and defensively superior in missile jousts at any range
- You arent beating the Rafale at high alt/speed, cuz thats where it performs better than everyone else
- You arent beating the Rafale at low alt, cuz your missiles become dead weight while theirs remain viable threats anytime you allow too much separation
- You arent beating the Rafale at positioning, since its sensors are superior to everyone elses in-game, its FM allows it to always have the upper hand kinematically, and the MICA allows pilots to make up for almost any positioning mistakes anyways (barring allowing the enemy jet to be directly on your six at relatively close range).
- A true neutral merge remains a coin toss where pilot skill and minor mistakes can swing the fight either way.
The Rafale as modelled in-game is a 15.3 jet, the EFT is a 14.3 jet, maybe a 14.7, and the rest of the top tiers are 14.3 at best, more 14.0. Thats why the EFT “feels likes its missing something” because no matter how good it is, it doesnt have any actual advantages over the Rafale in-game, so the Rafale pilot is fighting to all his strengths, while the EFT pilot is fighting to all of the Rafale pilots mistakes.
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of course not, just like with Rafale that will eventually outmeta by the new aircraft Gaijin introduces, Rafale edge is like how F-14A used to be, having an armament and avionics set that pretty much don’t have similiar counter.
With Rafale, at the least, everyone had Fox 3. The meta really suits well for Rafale.
I really welcome the buff of F-15E/F-16C so major country can be more competitive. And let’s not forget Su-30SM also receiving top speed buff, making its top speed at least comparable to J-11B.
I suggest the other way to buff other aircraft is to kill the multipath, maybe reduce it way even more to make AIM-120 more competitive.
I’ve seen YouTuber surviving the hell of IRCCM Missiles Meta, but we’ve been through that. Rafale will eventually phased out when more TVC/High G Missiles to be introduced.
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Personally, I think AMRAAM buffs are the best overall route for the most nations with the least possible backlash. There would definitely be many people unhappy about an MP nerf
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People can actually notch and chaff now, shooting Fox 3 isn’t as magical as during Seek and Destroy update. That’s why I think killing the MP wouldn’t hurt the meta anymore.
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If they buffed the 120C seeker it would have a similar effect while not creating any idea of any sort of nerf
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It’s time to just set MP to a historically accurate level on a missile by missile basis. There is no reason to leave it at 60m for the sake of it. Its without a doubt needed for the SAMs, I see no reason to not do the same with the air launch missiles at the same time.
And if we do get Gen 5 IRs anytime soon, a reduction in MP mitigates a return to an IR only meta
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You and me and some others agree maybe, but I think it isnt unreasonable to think 120C seeker buffs would sit better with most people than MP nerfs
I dont see why they are mutually exclusive.
Reduce MP to accurate heights and buff Aim-120 up to IRL performance
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do we even have values for min alt for NATO missiles?
for most modern Russian missiles its 15 to 20m depending on model
Probably, only one that I know of is Skyflash which is 33m, though that is not MP, but rather an issue with the prox fuse I beleive.
I’ve heard AMRAAM was 40m, but never actaully seen a source for that (though always felt that was a tad high, as the FA2 had a specific requirement for engaging sea-skimming ASMs and it achieved that design requirement iirc, so that would suggest that over water at least, MP wasn’t an issue for the AMRAAM, but would still probably be enough to mitigate MP much further, set to as ‘high’ as for 40m)
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Yeah that would be ideal. But would even be OP and would probably have heavy backlash. i think they can buff up AMRAAM now, and then change MP when they add IIR
I doubt AMRAAM is 40m, seeing as AIM-7M is as low as 5m…
The only thing I can think of, is that SARH were less affected than ARH…
But considering the FA2 engaging sea skimming missiles… I think there is more to it than a high MP height, maybe like Skyflash, there is some prox fuse related issue impacting min alt and not MP.
Imma be honest, this might be a hot take, but airframe past like a certain point doesn’t really matter at top tier.
In my opinion the only reason the Rafale is so good is not really because it has a great airframe, but the combination of insane radar and insane missile.
Give AIM-120C-5 proper capability and I guarantee that Rafale won’t be top dog anymore, or at least would be much more balanced with competitors
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Even with only F-15E/F-16C FM buff, it can greatly increase both of those winrate. I think if it comes with better avionics and missile kit, the performance would balanced out. Ironically enough, the British Typhoon would also be contested since British Typhoon always teamed up with Rafale.
M2K radar has more range and the same missiles yet it isn’t as good as the rafale
It’s kind of understatement, but the point stand still. TVC Fox 3 + AESA is such a good combination compared to R-77-1 + PESA.
As long as the maps remain as they are the Rafale remains dominant.
Because as soon as you have to get within 15-20km of the Rafale in something like an F-15, said F-15 just loses no matter how good AIM-120C-5 is.
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Its not exactly true. Airframe definitly does matter even at high tiers.
- Acceleration matters for early match positionning, maximizing kinetic energy imparted to missiles you launch, and recouping energy you’ve cached in
- High speed energy retention and nose authority both matter in BVR combat when evading missiles using the notch, or for popping in and out of a notch to fire missiles off-bore
- Dogfighting, though rarer nowadays in air RB, is still something that needs to be taken into consideration due to how easily ARH missiles are defeated in WT. In some gamemodes, it remains very common as well (air/ground SB, GFRB, squadron battles)
Good missiles and good sensors do make a massive difference in WT, but pretending the airframe doesnt matter is silly. A PO-2/ME262/Su-24/etc… armed with 8x MICA’s and the RBE2-AA would be considerably better than they are atm, but wouldnt be anywhere near as threatening as a Rafale.
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