Rafael SPYDER-SR - Israeli Short Range Guardian

[Surbaissemaxxing]

• Yes, but the later variant (Python 5 & I-Derby)
• Yes, but the earlier (2005) variant (Python 4 & Derby & EL/M-2106 NG radar)
• Yes, both but individually
• Yes, both but foldered
• None (Explain why)

Suggestion No.71

G’day lads. I want to suggest a high tier SPAA for Israel, which could fit between the MIM-72 and other future additions like the SPYDER-AIO or HVSD/ADAMS, that being the Israeli-Rafael made SPYDER-SR :)

^ Shown above is a SPYDER-SR system from Paris Airshow 2005, carrying Derby and Python 4 (yes, earlier SR variants could indeed have Python 4)

Description:

Spoiler

The Rafael SPYDER-SR is a short-range air defense system designed to counter aerial threats such as aircraft, helicopters, UAVs, drones, cruise missiles, and precision-guided munitions. Developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems in collaboration with Israel Aerospace Industries, it utilizes Python 4, Python 5, Derby and I-Derby missiles for interception. Python 4 uses a dual band IR seeker, the Python 5 meanwhile uses a IIR seeker, while Derby relies on active radar homing, as well as the I-Derby, which also has a better seeker compared to the normal Derby. The system is mounted on various truck platforms, however the one I am suggesting is the one presented by Rafael themselves on a Tatra T815 truck.

History:

Spoiler

The SPYDER-SR system was first displayed at the Paris Air Show in 2005. Developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems in collaboration with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), it was designed as a quick-reaction, mobile air defense system capable of engaging various aerial threats.

Following its introduction, the system underwent successful test firings in Shdema, Israel, where it demonstrated its ability to intercept targets with Python-5 and Derby missiles. Over the years, the SPYDER-SR has been showcased in multiple military exhibitions worldwide, attracting interest from various nations, leading up to actual customers.

Georgia was the first operator of the system, where they shot down a Su-24 with a Python 4 during the Russo-Georgian war. India became one of the first major operators of the system, awarding Rafael a contract for 18 SPYDER systems in 2008. In 2017, India conducted three rounds of test firings to validate its operational effectiveness. Singapore announced in 2018 that its SPYDER systems had achieved full operational capability.

The SPYDER-SR has seen combat deployments in various conflicts. It was reportedly used by the Indian Air Force during the India-Pakistan border skirmishes in 2019. India has conducted multiple test firings, including three rounds in May 2017, to validate its effectiveness. Vietnam and Peru integrated SPYDER into their air defense strategies following their acquisitions in 2015 and 2012.

Armaments:

Spoiler

Up to 4 missiles can be carried. The coverage is up to 15 to 20km according to Rafael.

Python 5

Python 4 (earlier ones could carry it, had a long research journey to find out))). Something that should be noted is that the Python 4 has the same range as the Python 5, as they are the same missile but with big seeker changes.

I-Derby/Derby (I-Derby is the same as Derby, but with a better seeker and electronics, making it be less distracted by coutermeasures and such)

^ The Derby variant on the video shown is an I-Derby according to Rafael

TopLite EOS (Electro-Optical ISR & Targeting System)

Specifications:

Spoiler

Sadly, I cannot find out the exact dimensions and weight of the SPYDER-SR on the Tatra chassis, therefore I will use the data of the Tatra instead. The Tatra T815 has a length ranging from 6.5m to 11m, a width of 2.5m and a height of 3m. Its curb weight varies from 9000kg to 14000kg, with a gross vehicle weight of up to 40000kg. The truck is powered by an air-cooled V12 diesel engine with a displacement of 19 liters, producing between 310hp and 400hp with a torque output of up to 2100Nm. The transmission system offers manual or automatic configurations with 10 forward and 2 reverse gears.

Sources:

Spoiler

Derby Brochure (from early 2000’s)

I-Derby Brochure

https://www.rafael.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/spyder-family-air-defense-systems.pdf

https://www.rafael.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/python-Air-to-Air-and-Air-defense-Missile.pdf

https://www.rafael.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/toplite-eos-family-of-targeting-systems.pdf

https://www.iai.co.il/p/elm-2106ng

Air-to-air missile Derby brochure - Rafael Advanced Defense Systems

SPYDER - Wikipedia

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/spyder/?cf-view

https://technicalparameters.eu/tatra-815/

https://bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/gallery/view.html?b_bbs_id=10044&pn=6722&num=45336 (Archived Version)

Зенитные ракетные системы на базе авиационных средств поражения - Блог "Вестника ПВО" — LiveJournal (Archived Version)

חדשות - צבא וביטחון nrg - ...השלל הרוסי בגיאורגיה: נשק (Archived Version)

Thanks a lot for reading! If you have any extra information, then feel free to share them in the replies! As always, have a good day :)

[BasherBenDawg8]

The first of the series and the logical first SPYDER addition, I hope we see it soon as the SPAA situation in Israel is still quite dire. I would love to see both an early and late addition at some point (preferably foldered), and later SPYDER variants as well with increased range and capabilities.

[DevilO6]

Juts a heads up, this vehicle did not had its own radar.

[Yontzee]

@Surbaissemaxxing

features a built-in EL/M-2106 NG radar

• Pretty confident this EL/M-2106 NG RADAR is not integrated with the vehicle physically but is carried by it and can be deployed by the crew and integrated with it electronically. Having this as an in-game function for the vehicle to independently deploy the small RADAR similarly to ammo crates would be a SICK and unique function.
• Solves the issue of the vehicle’s lack of onboard RADAR and adds a unique function of being able to deploy the RADAR in an open field and relocating/hiding the actual vehicle behind some cover and using the RADAR to lock on and still destroy aircraft/drones/missiles, etc. If we get HARM missiles, this would be a way to keep the survivability of the vehicle at an all time high since the RADAR and vehicle are separated. Now, what’s the max range of separation of the RADAR and SPYDER-SR vehicle? Does it require a cable connection or wireless? If it does require a cable, having it not require it for in-game but having a max connection range of what the cable would be could be a balancing factor.

[Yontzee]

Lmao just had this brought up in the Next Patch beyond Wishlist forum.

[DevilO6]

Tbh I was looking there, and i saw the other guy say it had a radar. I decided to check it out, and it just so happend that i had pictures from that event.

[Yontzee]

That’s fair👍

[BasherBenDawg8]

I mean I wasn’t wrong, it does technically have a radar lol, just not one integrated into the vehicle physically. Womp womp…

[DevilO6]

[BasherBenDawg8]

Search you’re feelings, you know it to be true…

[Surbaissemaxxing]

Edited. I cannot change the poll however

[Yontzee]

I would leave it anyways, make it a feature to be able to deploy/build the RADAR in-game like how the ammo crate is 🤙 new in-game function.

• Should have a 30-45 second placement/retrieval speed for balancing.
• Maybe like a ~50m max range of the vehicle to operate away from the RADAR before it loses the data. I’m not sure the actual max range of it or similar systems. That way players can maximize survivability against future AGM-88 HARM or similar missiles.
  • Worst case scenario Gaijin can have it so you deploy it and can’t move until you “pack it up”. With the advanced RADAR, even though you’re locked in place, you can just shoot down the incoming missiles but just make sure you have your ammo crate down as well to reload since you have only 4x high-performance Python-4 (IR) missiles. If locked in place game style isn’t for you, Players can still have the option to remain mobile using the EO/IR sight instead.
    
    
  • Circled is the RADAR’s Control & Display Unit in front of the SPYDER-SR’s launch vehicle.
    
  • Mounted on top of the SPYDER-SR is the TopLite EO/IR sight that allows for independent targeting for the vehicle and has an integrated LRF. With this sight and being a SPAA, it should also have the “Scouting” ability.
• In this configuration (early-variant), estimated BR: 11.7.
  • Late-variant would lack the RADAR deployment capability but would be offset with powerful I-Derby ARH missiles. It could be foldered with the early-SPYDER-SR w/ RADAR-version at 11.7-12.0 (Reference Vehicle: Type 81C but note that the Type 81C lacks ARH missiles at this time while the late-SPYDER-SR has it which is why it’s higher in BR).
    
    
  • Image above illustrates the late-SPYDER-SR that is I-Derby(ARH)/Python 5(EO/IR) compatible.
• Lastly, in order to replace a destroyed RADAR, you’ll have to go to a capture point to replenish it. 30 seconds for resupply seems fair.

ELM-2106 NG RADAR Image:

• Appears to have a very long cable between the RADAR and Control & Display Unit that also could be for connecting to another vehicle/FCS, so it’s very likely not a wireless data feed which is fine. For balancing, 50m “wireless” seems reasonable. RADAR’s height also adjustable.

ELM-2106 NG RADAR Specifications:

• Advanced RADAR w/ TWS and IFF amongst other types of scanning that can be adjusted in the standard vehicle mechanization menu. Definitely a big win.

https://www.iai.co.il/p/elm-2106ng

[Yontzee]

May have gotten carried away with the previous post…lol. Always a fan of new mechanics like this that aren’t too over the top.

[Audiomannen]

A hundred times YES. The Chaparral is already pretty mediocre at 9.7, having to cope with glorified Stingers at 11.3 (or god forbid 12.0) is completely detrimental. You have to spawn into a jet of your own if you want to get rid of CAS which is VERY expensive. I don’t get why Israel hasn’t gotten any other top tier SPAA yet, considering there are a few readily available options.

[DainTheFirst]

This is badly needed. Israeli top-tier is currently unplayable without a proper SPAA. SPYDER would fit perfectly

[WalletWorrier]

100% yes, much needed
Few notes:

1. as others have said, no built-in radar. But the IRST is plenty sufficient
2. DERBY and especially DERBY-ER are too powerful. These ARH, highly agile missiles have ranges of 20km and 40km respectively- so much for “short ranged guardian”!

That being said, +1. It should come alongside systems like the IRIS-T SLS, Bv 410, NASAMS (limited to AIM-9X and not AMRAAM for same reason as Derby), and that British ASRAAM thingy. There’s almost certainly other options so every country can get a comparable top IIR/UVIR SPAA.

[PlayedStatue626]

+1 as a folder so more options for that tier.

[UnknownVariable]

Love this thing, maybe sooner or later we can get multivehicle SAM systems as well

[noamax]

@Surbaissemaxxing

Python 4 (earlier ones could carry it, had a long research journey to find out))). Something that should be noted is that the Python 4 has the same range as the Python 5, as they are the same missile but with big seeker changes.

That is a mistake
Will they both have the same engine the python 5 has less drag and thrust adjusting which give it more range (even bvr capability) and higher top speed
Im pretty sure it can pull more as well and generaly has improved airframe

[Surbaissemaxxing]

Please provide documentation stating that, as official Rafael brochures say otherwise. Thrust management doesn’t instantly mean longer range. Rafael also states it’s a near BVR range missile

This is one of those brochures, I’m pretty sure 2-3 different ones say the same.