R2Y2, really worth 8.0?

Machinery of War Discussion
21

Sea Meteor is under-BR’d then.
Refer to this post:

There’s nothing that performs objectively better than R2Y2.
Vampire sacrifices climb rate for energy retention.

R2Y2 is better than all the 7.3s in flight performance EXCEPT Su-11 which sacrifices armament.
Top speeds don’t matter in War Thunder except to escape an engagement against a superior opponent.

Also Type 5 has massive pen and damage, they’re better than all but the American M2 20mm which they’re on-par with.

22

Even the Sea Meteor under BR, but it can’t be 8.0

This test is useless, you have to ignore this BR range that most of jets climb rate is based on the time to speed, and also you need to show up under what kind of situation to climb, the speed and degree you used may cause different results,like I post the table before, please check them:

If you just test them by the direct climb, then due to the engine issue, most of their performance is bad, all of them need to accelerate to over 700-800km/h and then keep a small degree rate to climb, Like F80C or F84G. Or if under low speed, R2Y2’s climb rate is worse than Kikka or F80C(only test from 0 -3km, about 350-400km/h speed with 15 degree test)

Under low speed, R2Y2 is better than most jets, but not in high speed

ANM3/Hisparno and Type 5’s pen are almost no different, and of course, nobody won’t uses AP belts, Type 5 has better damage, but the worse speed and RPM, but frankly say even 50.cal at this BR is enough, especially M3

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23

top speeds don’t matter
except when you need to escape from a fight
I don’t think this one is logically congruent.

Also vampires sacrificing climbrate for energy retention when they have neither.

24

Early straight wing jets do not need to climb at 700-800kph, their Vy is generally closer to 500kph. Early jet engines put out their highest thrust at 0 airspeed, unlike later jets where you see an increase in thrust generated at higher speeds on many of them.

25

The data shows Vampires have quite a lot of energy retention. It’s their high thrust and wing design compared to the mass that allows for it most likely.

Remember that energy retention is speed loss at a specific G-load, OR turn rate AKA g-load [in this instance] at a specific speed.

Vampire being able to pull more Gs doesn’t means it bleeds more speed, it just means it can pull harder.
If you allow F-84G to pull as hard as Vampire, it will still only retain energy at 14.7 degrees per second.

26

over 700km/h with a small degree climb is still useful for most of the Early jets, such as F84G, under this table you may find clear the the engine power is different, however, considering the early jets resistances, the increase of power may not help them

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27

Gaijin is phasing out the R2Y2. And they do it for the owners too.

28

You can see in your own chart both that the engine power is highest at 0 airspeed, remains constant in the entire speed range and how you experience significantly increased drag at 700kph compared to 500 kph ergo a lower climb speed yields better efficiency.

I went ahead and gathered the ingame data for you, you can clearly see the Vy is much lower than 700kph
F84B 500 vs 700kph climb(1)

29

at the moment nothing.

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30

Yes, as I mentioned that the drags might make the engine ineffective, I am not sure where did get this table, if under this situation, or the best speed range for the engine, it should be under 300-400km/h to climb
But if you really try to use the range to climb, you can find that F84G climb rate is better than R2Y2(just from 20 degree to 15, which will keep speed about 350km/h, from taking off to 3000m, F84G needs about 2min45s, R2Y2 is 2m48s, F80C only needs 2m5s)

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you can clearly find that over 800km/h, the acceleration of F84G is better than R2Y2
I need to check the climb rate data someone provided before if under such kind of situation, it might be wrong and misleading

@AlvisWisla would you like to share with us how do you get that data? Based on what conditions are measured？Are they continuous or instantaneous values?

31

They believe F84G has replaced them, but R2Y2 never needs to be 7.7, it is best for 7.3

32

I set fuel to 12 minutes where possible, and obviously they’re continuous. Thinking otherwise is trolling.
The only way R2Y2 goes to 7.3 is if ALL 7.3s go to 6.7, and F-84G goes to 7.0 since it’s blatantly obvious now that F-84G is inferior to R2Y2 in all but initial climb rate.

33

Under testing before, R2Y2’s climb rate is even worse than Kikka

F84G’s advantage is very clear, Speed, climb, maneuverability at high speeds, even the air resurrection point, again, it’s very ordinary in comparison to some of the 7.3’s, he’s exactly a 7.3-7.7

34

The only way Kikka can climb faster is if you make the fuel level even more difference.
R2Y2 and MD450B are better than F-84G no matter our biases.
Data doesn’t lie.

35

All fuel level is choosing the lowest level, nobody going to use the same time fuel
And R2Y2 is absolutely worse than F84G, the data don’t lie, unless are fake or using the wrong method, which is not biases
under all analyses before, R2Y2 is worse than most of 7.7 and a part of 7.3 planes
And I am sure if F84G is not rushing to head on or get intoa dogfight, it can 100% defeat the R2Y2

36

No one’s going to use 6 minutes of fuel, and picking different fuel amounts means you admit all your posts are wrong.
F-84G cannot win against R2Y2s in any situation outside a semi-lucky third party.

37

Everyone will use the lowest fuel in the battle, especially for jets, using the same time fuel means you using different weights of fuel, which is totally wrong and far from what the real players use, even 6 mins fuel is enough for most of battles

Even without air-respawn point, F84G could easily defeat the R2Y2, just need be more paitient

38

No, everyone will use a fuel amount that they’re comfy with, which until custom fuel amounts was 20 minutes or ~15 minutes if minimum was close to that.

Using less than 12 minutes is bias.
Patience means R2Y2 wins, not F-84G.

If you don’t know how to choose fuel, that makes sense why you’d pick minimum instead of 12 - 15 minutes.

39

If you don’t know in early jets how to choose the fuel, that is okay, 20 mins fuel is almost equal to suicide, especially for F84G, Choosing the lowest of fuel is common sense in this BR range. Even 6 mins fuel is enough for you to last 10mins fighting

Using the same minutes of fuel is totally wrong method
Also F-84g to defeat all jets with good mobility is using patient, not for R2Y2, it’s like P51 against zero

40

As someone who has (so far) researched almost the entire Japanese aviation technology tree up to rank 7, including Thai aircraft — R2Y2 should objectively be at lower brs. Having fully spaded V1 and 50% V2 and V3, as well as almost all F-84G modules (except bomb-missile ones), R2Y2 on today’s br is a great example of the obliteration of game element for its further removal.
I won’t retell the entire path of R2Y2 in the game, because everyone present knows it quite well, but everyone must also understand to some extent that the plane was specifically “butchered” so that in the future it would be played by as few people as possible and the effect of the subsequent removal of the plane was minimal (if not absent). If we talk about how these planes (R2 and F-84) do in today’s game realities, the F-84 is objectively better in almost everything while being lower at br.
I’m regarding these planes from my own observations, because I got pleasure and disgust from them as an average player of this game, not someone who has spent half of life in it. I also don’t want to brag numbers because most of them have already been demonstrated and proven to be involved in effectiveness. So,

F-84G
  • air spawn (the main advantage): some height and speed are immediately given, which allows you not to waste time climbing up and often have the opportunity to play on equal footing against 8.0-8.3 aircraft, which allows you to get into at least one head-on;
  • high maximum speed: you won’t go supersonic on it, but not all 8.0-8.3 planes can reach its speeds in a dive and at sea level. I won’t even bother mentioning lower brs;
  • satisfactory speed gain/acceleration: the speed gain is not ideal, but it is sufficient to compete with br a little higher than its own, and when it comes against 7.0-7.3 it seems that a large part of the planes are literally snails;
  • good survivability: I can say that the plane is able to withstand several serious hits even from 20 mm guns. Whether it’s luck or morronic damage mechanics (or both), I don’t know, but the plane is able to go head-ons effectively and often anticipate direct hits, although after that it starts flying like a brick;
  • terrible maneuverability: there is nothing to explain here. Anyone who knows what Thunderjets are knows how they behave when turning.
R2Y2 (this applies to all versions overall, because the difference is minimal and almost unnoticeable in the conditions of an actual gameplay)
  • excellent weapons: 4x Type 5 work wonders. Their characteristics were changed quite often (mostly in negative way) but after a while they can be effectively used in both air and ground battles;
  • good turn rate: if there is speed and an opportunity to recover energy, this plane turns at 4.0-4.3 Zero level, because of which most planes do not expect to see such a trick. After all, until recently, no one really played R2Y2;
  • mediocre survivability: the plane can survive a volley of 4-5 20 mm shots or be burned by 2 12.7 mm bullets because, somehow, the damage is strangely distributed and in some places you can survive what the plane should not in general (but after these hits the plane flies similar to the F-84, if not worse);
  • low energy recovery and retention: despite the fact that the R2Y2’s engines are very powerful compared to other WW2 jet engines, they are not able to properly provide the aircraft with energy in the event of a maneuver, this is especially important on brs 8.7-9.0 where the enemy has not only better characteristics in every metric but also has guided air-to-air missiles. Yes, these are early IR missiles, but the plane cannot physically make more than 2-3 effective maneuvers, after which you either dart the ground or fly at the speed of a pre-war biplane;
  • massive (no pun intended) dimensions: size matters (no pun intended x2), and even more so in this aircraft. It is at least 1.5 times larger in volume than any other aircraft of its class on these brs (except, obviously, bombers), and with a terrible loss of energy, it becomes a flying piñata, which it would be a shame not to hit;
  • insufficient maximum speed: the plane is not able to effectively overcome and keep up a speed of 800+ km/h, and even more so 900+. When facing 8.3-9.0, a majority of aircraft are capable of reaching and sustaining speeds of 1000+ km/h, which means that escaping the enemy will be almost impossible. In combination with the previous characteristics, it can be concluded that the aircraft is not adapted to the conditions of combat with aircraft of the Korean War era and, even more so, their modifications after it.

TL;DR: R2Y2 was torn apart to reduce its popularity and to remove it as quietly as possible, and under the conditions of completely different opponents in the game (the opponents of R2Y2 in 2025 are completely different from those of ~10 years ago), the plane simply had to rot away and be thrown into the bin of paper projects, which, unlike the German ones, one would not want to mention/remember and some would never know.

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