Have you tried flying close to the ground?
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I agree about the R27ER OP atm.
In two months we will get Fox3 the ER will not be a problem at all, the F15 will be really better with Fox3 (speed advantage and LOF)
But lots of people are not ready to see Mirage2K with 4 Mica EM + 2 Magic2. The 530F are not a joke and the mica will be deadly.
My guy do not worry they will still cry that r77 is op
FOX-3 is pretty cool and could be used to balance against R-27ER but you can still avoid both simply by flying low to the ground. Makes them all useless just like it nullifies the R-27ER currently.
Fox-3’s won’t change a thing. BVR is already dead. The meta is WVR Fox-2 heat-slinging with the 9M being king in the 16v16 furball and the R-73 pulling ahead in the 1v1 knife fight. The ARH missiles will be dead on arrival since nobody does the high altitude BVR combat that they’re designed for and the R-27ER will still be the king of punishing anyone within visual range that dares to climb above multipath altitude since it is still much faster than the Fox-3’s.
unless they fix multipath, that is
Assuming they fix multi-path the R-27ER still has massive kinematic advantage over stuff like AIM-120 from true BVR engagements. It won’t be able to do multi-target but it will certainly be able to win long distance fights… which is where everyone will want to be anyway should that happen.
we already had that discussion.
But basically let’s agree to disagree, because there is so many parameters to take into account that neither of us would be totally wrong or right
I disagree, what I said was a true statement… nothing is objective or opinionated about it.
to make it short. A R27ER will have an advantage if fired high at a high target, on early ARH only
However, down low, where the effective range goes from 50-100 km to around 10-30, the active radar seeker will make the most difference.
Most ARH have around 15km of active range. Up high you need to babysit the missile for most of its flight while down low you can almost turn away immediately, while the R27ER carrier will have to crank at best, therefore running into the enemy missile
Also
subjective, not objective, otherwise this sentence doesn’t make sense
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Thanks for the grammatical correction… but you understood what I meant. There is no need for us to go back and forth correcting the grammar.
This is all untrue, the R-27ER (especially lofted) remains lethal for much longer range and at all altitudes than most ARH missiles. Additionally, it can be guided at 90° notch angle by certain aircraft (SMT). The time to target is better, and the only modern missile that offers similar performance to the R-27T in regards to long range stealth is the MICA.
you can stay in a notch relative to my aircraft, not my missile.
if i fire an ARH at a Mig or su firing a r27ER at me, you can bet i’m going to maneuver in a way he will be forced to disengage or run into my missile.
Finally it all depends what ARH we are talking about. There’s some drastic difference in kinematic performances between an AMRAAM A and C.
Won’t matter when I’m still outside the MAR while my missile is perfectly inside. Especially if I fire sooner or loft it manually. The other issue is that I can fire a missile and then turn away, opting to lock you later for less warning. The argument is sound. AIM-120A and AIM-120C have the same performance unless you’re discussing the 2004+ models of the missile… which is kind of interesting because the analogues that would be fighting those would also be equipped with R-77 or R-77-1.
With the R-77 and R-77-1 I’d be able to launch an R-27ER for first hit probability and lob a few ARH missiles after it as well… this would be quite a combo. And we must still consider that I can crank at 90 degrees while most American planes can crank at ~60.
In the future we can get R-27EA to counter Aim-120C3 or maybe C5. But…
7M need buff
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I would imagine R-27EA really is a AIM-120C-8 competitor. R-77-1 to counter the C-5.
BVR is actually more important than people would realise. If your team just give up the entire high sky, you will get rained down by IR missiles with IRCCM which could wipe out 3-4 planes in a sec, usually determines the result of the battle.
I don’t get why you would want to carry a ER when you have 77-1…
That missile may be balanced against early fox 3s (and it came online after some of those, mind you).
It will be useless against anything else though…
The MAR concept only applies if you are able to turn cold.
Then also comes the spicy situation where you find yourself against multiple targets. A fox 3 carrier can do much better in such a situation.
Range isn’t everything. Seeker quality, speed, ARH capability are as important
F-15’s not getting AMRAAMs.
MICA EM are AMRAAM C equivalent.
BVR is dead cause of SARHs.
AARHMs are superior in BVR for a reason.
It’s dead because of multipathing
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