R-27 Alamo speed and maneuverability

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
,
43

Gaijin has a primary source for modeling the missile in their game, which they have gone ahead and used.

They’re also aware of the inaccuracy, at least. Which is nice.

You might find it unreasonable, that is unfortunate… but there is nothing else I can do for you in that regard. Gaijin will not take secondary sources when a primary one is available. Likewise, Russian players do not have access to our national archives, and UK players are the only ones with access to documents that come from their archives… @Gunjob can attest - the documents used to bug report the R-27ER and give it the current performance are the best data available. The same way that British manufacturer documents would be the best available for their stuff.

No one would take a Russian document over an American one for the F-15… why would the opposite be true for the R-27?

2 Likes
45

That’s not the problem.

1 Like
46

Rosoboron quotes less than maximum range. The maximum range (non-lofted) is 130km, maximum lofted range is 170km for the R-27ER.

47

I’d much rather have German documents on the r-27 Alamo then Russian ones.

2 Likes
48

im not surprised honestly.
Gaijin has a policy of thrust handicapping

1 Like
49

It can do 130km in-game, it follows the charts pretty darn accurately. The stat card is just that - stat card.

1 Like
50

Germans did not do testing of R-27ER so this isn’t possible.

51

The glaring issue about having Russian sources on the Alamo is that they’re Russian. Just to remind you, Russia is a nation in which they will tour nuclear missiles around a parade repaint those missiles and then tour them again just to show they have more. It is not within a Shadow of doubt that these documents about in use missiles are falsified towards the public or I should say the students of the MAI

2 Likes
52

I’m French history class we have something called OOCVL which roughly translates to. objective origin context value limits

53

that claim doesnt do your argument any favours.
moreso makes you seem like an unreasonable sceptic

2 Likes
54

That MAI document is a primary source, that’s a value to the origin of the document. That document is online therefore being a copy of the original, that is a limit as the document can be edited easily online and made to look authentic. Limit to the origin. This document could be used but should be supported by other documents about the same subject. You cannot ignore this issue if it is present, same applies with other online docs, they all have the same limit but it’s more likely to be true if repeated by different sources, it reduces the margin of error. 1 primary source is good don’t get me wrong but 1 primary source vs. 3 secondary sources is a tougher cookie

2 Likes
55

For a book with >500 pages and goes over the real technical details of the missile - it’s all verifiable with real data and shows you how the math is done… because it’s educational. It is literally the most informative information on a missile possible. Any skepticism from others currently is unwarranted and we aren’t here to “prove” that to them. It was left to the developers, and it is implemented properly.

2 Likes
56

Do you have access to it?

2 Likes
57

Yes! Through a friend.

58

That’s good for you and I hope your friend has a successful career. Does it explicitly say the top speed of the missile?

1 Like
59

Launch speed +3500 km/h, although this is not specifically the “top speed”… I think. It’s in Russian.

60

Does it say the thrust amount and duration?
That would help alot. With the amount I can do my own calculations to find out which is true

2 Likes
61

Roughly matches in-game thrust. For example, and context… The R-24 missile is 3s in-game when it is ~5s in real life.

This is because Gaijin has to adjust. It is not “peak thrust” for “X” seconds… it ramps up to peak and then either plateaus or increases and then decreases… Gaijin’s is simplified. So it is +/- a certain amount and drag is adjusted to meet the correct rear aspect range criteria at medium alts. This is how Gaijin models their missiles.

As such there is percentage of permissible error for front aspect launch ranges among other changes, and this is applied fairly on all the missiles in the game. This is why AIM-7F accelerates faster than it should as well.

62

Thank you, but like I can’t confirm that the thrust in game is the same as in the book. I would like the numbers from the book itself

63

I don’t have the page or numbers off the top of my head. I would need to inquire about it, and that may take time. I know that Gaijin modeled the changes to 35G and motor burn time etc off this source… What are you using to determine if it is accurate or not?