I agree that the performance of the 76 Sherman is indeed better than the Panzer IV H, since it has a gyro stabilizer, which we all know is a big advantage at low BR.
However, the performance of the Panzer IV H is undeniably similar to the Chi-To.
I believe the Panzer IV H should at least stay at 4.3, otherwise it would be completely unfair to Japanese players.
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To be fair 2.7 is one of the worst BRs to play for heavy tanks, the Matilda for example is downright useless fighting 3.7 (but it clubs the hell out of 1.7 newbies), similar issue with the B1 Bis. Most 2.7 tanks still use reserve tier guns (or slightly better variations thereof).
Even the better 2.7 tanks such as the Lee have a hard time facing 3.7. Then you have things like the Lago I (which should be more like 1.7) or the aforementioned Matilda facing long barrel Pz IVs with 80mm+ of armor.
For Pete’s sake at 2.3 you have the T-28E, Char 2C, and B1 Bis facing the Pz IV G.
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That’s where it used to be, and I’m fine with it being there, but other will not.
Reducing the rank makes them nonviable for events and daily tasks which pushes players to higher BRs, increasing the grind requirement for new players to be able to participate in events and more condensed playerbase I guess.
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I play USA and CHI GRB. If you bothered reading my entire comment, you’d know that I play other nations. You have a problem dealing with Pz IV then I have a bad news for you…
My point still stands.
I wish people would stop regurgitating this dogmatic opinion spread by a few American Youtubers.
It’s such a complex issue, mainly stemming from the fact that Germany is lacking light tanks (no scouting). Only thing they have is a Puma.
Post your Pz IV stats then if you want to be that guy.
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I dont really understand why are you comparing it to chi-to when it is much more similar to chi-nu II at 4.3. Especially after chi-to got the engine buff.
smth idk why is how apparently with the chi to 4mm more pen= entire br higher than 145
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No, Gaijin wants to force new players up to Br 5-5.7 to do basic rank 3 tasks, by making all of BR 3-4 Rank 3 SPG and SPAA only. Brilliant decision.
Even the puma should be rank 3 like every other nation.
But no, lets nerf germany with rank 2 everything and under-BR all the vehicles.
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Do you know the difference in the number of matches you’ve played with Germany compared to other nations? Don’t try to deny it. Everyone here knows the forum IDs match the in-game ones. Your German match count explains why you’re rarely destroyed by Panzer IVs—your stats with China and the US mostly don’t even fall within the BR range where the Panzer IV appears.
This isn’t some opinion I got from watching someone else’s videos; it’s based on my personal gameplay experience. German players are simply the worst in terms of skill.
In fact, the last thing I want in WWII BR matches is to be teamed up with Germany.
Below is a player average win rate statistic that proves my point. You’ll notice that only the German tech tree has abnormally low win rates.
They often don’t know how to play on maps, can’t identify vehicle weak points, have eyesight as if they’re blind, and don’t even realize when someone’s flanked them from way behind.
Do you know why? German tanks have a lot of fans, so the majority of new players who join the game choose the German line as their first.
It’s not hard to figure out the facts. Please don’t unconditionally defend a nation just because of your personal bias.
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Because the Chi-To’s armor is actually comparable to the Panzer IV H, feel free to compare them in the game. The Chi-To’s additional mobility certainly doesn’t justify it being a full 1.0 BR higher than the Panzer IV H.
Even if I take a step back and compare the more fragile Chi-Nu Kai to the Panzer IV H, it only makes the Panzer IV H sitting at 3.7 an absolute joke.
The best comparison to me is the M10.
It has a very similar gun, roughly similar armor and comparable mobility. The only differences are the lack of a roof (Making it very vulnerable to CAS and artillery) and a .50 cal.
Oh, right, and an actual turret drive. How is it at the same tier as the F2 and G? They’re practically identical in all other respects, but absolutely crush it on flexibility due to having an electric turret drive.
Also a good example, the Na-To. Gun and mobility are similar, but that’s about it. The Na-To is a giant, unarmored box with no turret or any roof armor. It is absolutely forced into the sniping role as a result (While being easily wiped by CAS), a role the Panzer IVs can fill even better than it can due to the turret.
Also worth mentioning, the YaG. Where to even start here? Worse gun (Albeit it faster reload and rangefinder). Effectively zero armor, coaxial MGs will wipe you. Appalling mobility. An incredibly awkward gun platform due to the dead zone forwards and back and a wheeled chassis, and even when you get it aligned properly you have to fight -3 degrees of gun depression.
All 3 of those tanks are 3.3, the same BR as the Panzer IVs which can do almost exactly what they can, just much more reliably.
IMO, here are the BRs that make sense.
3.3: Panzer IV J: No turret drive makes it very comparable to the M10.
3.7: Pz IV F2: Complete glass cannon armor makes it a credible sniper, but unreliable at closer ranges.
4.0: Pz IV G/H: The combo of improved armor with still very solid firepower would allow them to work fine here.
Frankly, you could argue me up to 4.0/4.3 for the turret drive equipped ones. But comparing them to the hilariously overtiered Chi-Tos is a bit of a false start. They need to come down regardless.
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I mean i am all for pz.4 H to go to 4.3. I just dont think it is comparable to chi-to and especially not to chi-to late.
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I don’t care what you think about me TBH. I don’t have a horse in this race, mate. I am just sick and tired of people spreading this dogmatic hate churned out by some content creators. I mostly play ASB since the start of this year and only go to GER/USA GRB7.3 to finish up my dailies and CHI/USA 6.0 if I want to have fun. I could care less about rank I-II to be honest, so I’m just giving my opinion here since I’ve been on both sides of the Pz IV barrel.
This ain’t Plebbit.
You watch Spookston too much.
Have you ever wondered why? Is that maybe because Germany has no light tanks? Go play USA. Entire enemy team is scouted 24/7 by a swarm of light tanks (M18 / T92 / M41). It’s why I go play USA when I want to get my Intelligence daily task. Now go play Germany. Nobody scouts, because all they have are medium / heavy tanks. Therefore it is easy to sneak up on German players. Due to matchmaker rules, GER and USA are rarely on the same team, it almost never happens and USA are most of the time in a team with USSR. That means USA teams will always have the benefit of knowing all the enemy positions all the time as well as vastly cheaper CAS/CAP due to scouting discounts on SP.
That’s the raw truth. You can call me whatever you want, I don’t care, but denying this would be denying reality.
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The fact is, you’re a typical German player, only defending the nation you like.
Let me guess—most of your Leopard 1 matches were played during the 7.3 BR era, weren’t they? Don’t tell me you’ve forgotten that the Leopard 1 was once at 7.3.
The Leopard 1 was at 7.3, while the M60 and AMX-30 were at 7.7. Why?
This is the best evidence: it’s the result of German players’ poor skills.
I have to thank Gaijin’s big data balancing method again—maybe one day we’ll see the King Tiger at 1.0 BR.
I don’t want to sound so harsh, but this is the reality: you’re just a group of beneficiaries who don’t want the vehicles of the nation you like to return to a BR on par with others.
I will never forget how German players complained when the Leopard 1 at 7.3 was moved to the same BR as other NATO 105mm MBTs.
Even now, I occasionally hear complaints about how unfair it is for the Leopard 1 to sit at 8.0.
The Panzer IV should have been restored to its proper tier long ago.
And about your claim of not having light tanks? Puma? German M41? RU 251?
The fact is, most German players would rather stick to their big cats than play light tanks. The game provides you with options, but you choose not to use them. Whose fault is that?
By the way, the Soviet tech tree doesn’t get a truly usable light tank until the BTR at 7.3. Before that, most of their spotting tanks are painfully slow.
As for the complaint about Germany not being paired with U.S. teammates—that’s even funnier. I didn’t know that Japanese, British, Italian, French, Swedish, and Chinese players were all much more likely to get U.S. teammates while only German players had to suffer from U.S. planes wreaking havoc.
I can show you the win rate chart again.
Every other nation faces the U.S. as their enemy,
but only Germany has ridiculously low win rates.
This once again proves that it’s a player skill issue
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I don’t remember Panzer IV H being at 4.7, only 4.3. I wouldn’t mind it being even at 4.7.
Chi to’s gun is better, thus it was 0.4 higher than Panzer IV H at 4.3.
It’s not about German players, it’s about major vs minor nations.
Russian T-34s have been moved down for no reason as well.
It didn’t happen to Shermans because of stabilizers and reload time. They fit very well into War Thunder’s meta and cqc maps.
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I dont think any WW2 tank needs to move anywhere.Let the game settle at least in one area.Focus on the mess that is top tier.
They shifted all the 5.7s to 6BR and ruined the game, enough is enough.
It’s a rank 2 vehicle.
Coincidentally, it progresses zero events or battlepass tasks. It also gains a penalty of significant proportions researching rank IV vehicles.
Until after you got every german vehicle you want, using the puma after getting your desired rank 3 vehicles is literally griefing yourself in progression.
I say this as someone who plays rus/ger/brit vehicles with relative equality on the ground.
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ok
Huh? M18 6.0br, T92 7.0br, M41 6.1br, what is their relations with Pz4H needed to rise it br?
Nothing. They are fighting over German players bad stereotype.
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