I don’t know how it at 3.7, it is a great tank, great gun, decent mobility and armour which standout in its BR. And the most important part is just look at other tank at it br, Sherman and Japans’ 75mm main shell pen 103mm, T-34 76mm main shell BR-350B (MD-8 fuse) 96mm BR-350SP 99mm, and the gun on Pz4 can pen 145mm?! This pen rate already at the 4.7 level like the Japanese long 75mm and Soviet 57mm gun!
9 Likes
I’d put it at 4.0 or maybe 4.3.
6 Likes
It used to be around that BR before, then the newgen cattle wagon arrived
3 Likes
I still haven’t figured out why did their BR decreased. They just should return to 4.0 and 4.3.
I 100% agree the long-barreled Pz4s are under BRed to the point I’d even say at least one of them is a full BR under what it should be.
6 Likes
One likely reason was the drop in rank from 3 to 2 in one of the tech tree overhauls. Many experienced players were using them get Battlepass and Event tasks done before the change, now they are largely played by new players.
7 Likes
One of the main reasons they dropped was that they have very weak roof armour, and especially US planes but anything with .50cal’s or cannons can easily kill them through this armour. I agree the F2, G, H and J could all go up by a BR step each, then the H could probably go up a second.
4 Likes
F2 should be 3.3, IV G should be 3.7, IV H should either be 3.7 or 4.0 since the armor upgrade for the latter is relatively minor.
8 Likes
Get the pen against angled armour back and reverse it to the good old 4.7. That’s the best solution.
Tho pz4 has the worst handling among everyone, bruhh
3 Likes
P4 has a good gun, but the armor is paper and turret traverse is trash compared to other tanks. You can´t look at tanks in vacuum and by only one attribute. Any suggestion above 4.0 is ridiculous. I see Panzer 4 on enemy team and all I say to myself is “yeey a free Piñata” while for example in the case of T-34 I say “oh boy, where do I shoot this MF, so that volumetric doesn´t fk me over?”
The amount of times I have been killed by a Panzer 4 could be counted on fingers on one hand. They should also get back to rank III. I never forgive myself for not fighting harder against the decision to move them to rank II.
I don´t know why you had to throw in the dogmatical “german mains”… to win sympathy points? Brother, this aint Plebbit.
Anyway, so what constitutes weak armor in your mind? I am fairly certain that PZ4 has a weak armor, there can be no argument about that. Is there even a gun above 20mm that can´t penetrate the PZ4? Even a reserve tank should have no problems with its armor. I am fairly sure you can even .50cal it. Can you .50cal T-34 or Sherman? I don´t think so.
6 Likes
My exact thought process. I love facing Germany at 3.7 for that exact reason.
I think 4.0 would be fine for it.
2 Likes
lmfao so I wasn’t only me that called them that. I used to refer to them like that when the EBR was 4.3
1 Like
Chi-to and Chi-ri: Am I joke to you?
That’s why balancing by statistics is a bad idea.
T-34 (1942) also used to be 4.3 (or at least 4.0, I don’t remember). KV-1 (ZiS-5) also used to be 4.3, but in this case it has been moved up. T-34 STZ and Panzer IV J used to be 4.0. Panzer IV F2 used to be 3.7. KV-2 used to be 4.0.
KV-1 (ZiS-5) is now 4.7 for some reason, a full BR higher than a Panzer IV H, which used to be at the same BR, even though Panzer IV H can easily deal with a KV-1 (ZiS-5) and Germany overall was a great counter to Russians.
This downwards trend made BRs 4.0-5.0 pretty empty, 4.3 lineups ceased to exist. Now you jump from 3.7 lineups straight to 5.3-6.0 lineups. There are no interesting lineups in between.
You can only make a freak lineup out of rare vehicles like T-34-57, KV-85 or M6 and T1E1 and TDs like Hetzer, Jagdpanzer 4 or a bunch of Russian TDs. Alternatively you can take 1 tank from that BR range and uptier the rest of your tanks, but you will be the only one to do it and it’s not the same vibe.
1 Like
This is the kind of comment you’d expect from players who only play Germany.
Can you take a look at other nations, please?
The Chi-To performs similarly to the Panzer IV, yet it has a BR of 4.7.
At the end of the day, it’s just because German players’ skills were generally poor back then, so the Panzer IV’s BR got lowered.
4 Likes
In 2016, the M4A1 (76)W had a BR of 4.7, the same as the Panzer IV and Chi-To.
Now, in 2024, the 76 Sherman has risen to 5.0, while the Chi-To stays at 4.7, and the Panzer IV has dropped to 3.7.
Objectively, it’s clear that the issue lies with player skills.
Tbh the Pz. IVs are mostly undertiered, but not by that much. They serve as nice ‘glass cannon’ counterbalances to the more armored Sherman/T-34s, which I think is fine.
Ideally the BRs should be as such:
Pz. IV F2, Pz. IV J, Pz.Bef.Wg.IV J, and Finnish Pz. IV: 3.7
Pz. IV G, Pz. IV H, Italian Pz. IV: 4.0
(J model is at 3.7 due to bad turret traverse, which makes it a sidegrade to the Pz. IV F2 in my opinion.)
4 Likes
The 76 sherman is straight up better then the Pz. IVH, though…?
Better armor and mobility, plus a verticial stabilizer. The gun is also a tad bit better, and has significantly more filler.
4 Likes
The 76 M4A1 is objectively better than the Panzer IV.
The F2 is pretty bad actually, 50mm of armor at maximum with the weakest gun of the Panzer IVs (with long 75mm), as well as all the other negatives of the series. I’m fine with it at 3.3, the IV J is better because it has 80mm of UFP armor plus the better gun, turret traverse is lower yes but does it really matter that much?
I think the IV J should be 3.7, and the IV H 4.0. The IV G could either go to 3.7 or 4.0 because of the weaker gun.
6 Likes
And that is probably overtiered based on what I’ve heard about it.
I wouldn’t want to play a Panzer IV H at 4.7, when I can play the 76mm M4A1 just 0.3 higher.
3 Likes