Pz4H should be at 4.3 to 4.7

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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33

The best comparison to me is the M10.

It has a very similar gun, roughly similar armor and comparable mobility. The only differences are the lack of a roof (Making it very vulnerable to CAS and artillery) and a .50 cal.

Oh, right, and an actual turret drive. How is it at the same tier as the F2 and G? They’re practically identical in all other respects, but absolutely crush it on flexibility due to having an electric turret drive.

Also a good example, the Na-To. Gun and mobility are similar, but that’s about it. The Na-To is a giant, unarmored box with no turret or any roof armor. It is absolutely forced into the sniping role as a result (While being easily wiped by CAS), a role the Panzer IVs can fill even better than it can due to the turret.

Also worth mentioning, the YaG. Where to even start here? Worse gun (Albeit it faster reload and rangefinder). Effectively zero armor, coaxial MGs will wipe you. Appalling mobility. An incredibly awkward gun platform due to the dead zone forwards and back and a wheeled chassis, and even when you get it aligned properly you have to fight -3 degrees of gun depression.

All 3 of those tanks are 3.3, the same BR as the Panzer IVs which can do almost exactly what they can, just much more reliably.

IMO, here are the BRs that make sense.
3.3: Panzer IV J: No turret drive makes it very comparable to the M10.
3.7: Pz IV F2: Complete glass cannon armor makes it a credible sniper, but unreliable at closer ranges.
4.0: Pz IV G/H: The combo of improved armor with still very solid firepower would allow them to work fine here.

Frankly, you could argue me up to 4.0/4.3 for the turret drive equipped ones. But comparing them to the hilariously overtiered Chi-Tos is a bit of a false start. They need to come down regardless.

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34

I mean i am all for pz.4 H to go to 4.3. I just dont think it is comparable to chi-to and especially not to chi-to late.

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35

gasp

I don’t care what you think about me TBH. I don’t have a horse in this race, mate. I am just sick and tired of people spreading this dogmatic hate churned out by some content creators. I mostly play ASB since the start of this year and only go to GER/USA GRB7.3 to finish up my dailies and CHI/USA 6.0 if I want to have fun. I could care less about rank I-II to be honest, so I’m just giving my opinion here since I’ve been on both sides of the Pz IV barrel.

This ain’t Plebbit.

You watch Spookston too much.

Have you ever wondered why? Is that maybe because Germany has no light tanks? Go play USA. Entire enemy team is scouted 24/7 by a swarm of light tanks (M18 / T92 / M41). It’s why I go play USA when I want to get my Intelligence daily task. Now go play Germany. Nobody scouts, because all they have are medium / heavy tanks. Therefore it is easy to sneak up on German players. Due to matchmaker rules, GER and USA are rarely on the same team, it almost never happens and USA are most of the time in a team with USSR. That means USA teams will always have the benefit of knowing all the enemy positions all the time as well as vastly cheaper CAS/CAP due to scouting discounts on SP.

That’s the raw truth. You can call me whatever you want, I don’t care, but denying this would be denying reality.

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36

The fact is, you’re a typical German player, only defending the nation you like.

Let me guess—most of your Leopard 1 matches were played during the 7.3 BR era, weren’t they? Don’t tell me you’ve forgotten that the Leopard 1 was once at 7.3.

The Leopard 1 was at 7.3, while the M60 and AMX-30 were at 7.7. Why?
This is the best evidence: it’s the result of German players’ poor skills.

I have to thank Gaijin’s big data balancing method again—maybe one day we’ll see the King Tiger at 1.0 BR.

I don’t want to sound so harsh, but this is the reality: you’re just a group of beneficiaries who don’t want the vehicles of the nation you like to return to a BR on par with others.

I will never forget how German players complained when the Leopard 1 at 7.3 was moved to the same BR as other NATO 105mm MBTs.
Even now, I occasionally hear complaints about how unfair it is for the Leopard 1 to sit at 8.0.

The Panzer IV should have been restored to its proper tier long ago.

And about your claim of not having light tanks? Puma? German M41? RU 251?
The fact is, most German players would rather stick to their big cats than play light tanks. The game provides you with options, but you choose not to use them. Whose fault is that?
By the way, the Soviet tech tree doesn’t get a truly usable light tank until the BTR at 7.3. Before that, most of their spotting tanks are painfully slow.

As for the complaint about Germany not being paired with U.S. teammates—that’s even funnier. I didn’t know that Japanese, British, Italian, French, Swedish, and Chinese players were all much more likely to get U.S. teammates while only German players had to suffer from U.S. planes wreaking havoc.

I can show you the win rate chart again.
Every other nation faces the U.S. as their enemy,
but only Germany has ridiculously low win rates.
This once again proves that it’s a player skill issue

4 Likes
37

I don’t remember Panzer IV H being at 4.7, only 4.3. I wouldn’t mind it being even at 4.7.

Chi to’s gun is better, thus it was 0.4 higher than Panzer IV H at 4.3.

It’s not about German players, it’s about major vs minor nations.

Russian T-34s have been moved down for no reason as well.

It didn’t happen to Shermans because of stabilizers and reload time. They fit very well into War Thunder’s meta and cqc maps.

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38

I dont think any WW2 tank needs to move anywhere.Let the game settle at least in one area.Focus on the mess that is top tier.

They shifted all the 5.7s to 6BR and ruined the game, enough is enough.

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It’s a rank 2 vehicle.

Coincidentally, it progresses zero events or battlepass tasks. It also gains a penalty of significant proportions researching rank IV vehicles.

Until after you got every german vehicle you want, using the puma after getting your desired rank 3 vehicles is literally griefing yourself in progression.

I say this as someone who plays rus/ger/brit vehicles with relative equality on the ground.

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40

ok

42

Huh? M18 6.0br, T92 7.0br, M41 6.1br, what is their relations with Pz4H needed to rise it br?

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Nothing. They are fighting over German players bad stereotype.

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And what do you expect after Gaijin pulverized Germany between 6.3 to 8.0 in the last BR changes, the stupid long ranges and sniping nerfs in ALL maps specially bad for germany tanks and move up tanks keeping nerfs like Panthers, Leopards and so on???
Here you have Germany win ratios one year ago before Gaijin decided the incompetent allies players need more and more hand outs.
Screenshot - 2024-11-19T150854.129

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Fighting is a strong word. More like explaining.

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USA have bad win ratios: bad lienups, nerfs, see more powerfull enemies.
Soviets have bad win ratios : bad lienups, nerfs, see more powerfull enemies.
Germany have bad win ratios : bad players.

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This thread discusses German tank’s BR. It’s doomed to devolve into “German players bad” gossip.

It already did in mere 9 replies, even though no one actually defends Panzer IV H being at 3.7, most say it should be 4.0.

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Content creators fishing for easy likes be like:

These content creators channel their audience’s inner frustration with the game, creating a scape goat - le Germany bad. A scape goat other players can make fun of, because it has been sanctified by these Youtubers. This opinion then gets regurgitated on sites like Plebbit, which is basically just a hub of USA players.

I see players behaving like lemmings on all sides, not just Germany. That’s why “germany le bad” stance is just so ridiculous to me and oftentimes I just have to speak out against it, which then devolves into what you saw above.

Yeah, I think we all agree Pz IV should be 4.0 no problem, just place them back at rank III where they belong.

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“Panter2005”
“Flak_Dancer”
Even without checking your stats, just looking at your IDs, I can tell which nation you mainly play. I looked it up, and sure enough, you’re a German main.

You German mains coming out to defend Germany is the biggest irony.

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50

I hate the whole Panzer IV lineup. These tanks are too weak, even AA trucks lol kill it, as well as every plane with cal50… US fighters and others don’t even have to spawn with bombs, they just cal50 it. Mobility is not so good and the box armor is unforgivingly bad. Gun traverse is meh as well. The first versions can be even cal50ties through the sides. The pen doesn’t really matter that much, if everything else is as it is. US just spawn their fighters machine gun them. Russians and other spawn fast AA vehicles to lol bambambam it with 80mm pen autoguns.

The worst downside is actually the rank II issue. Its a waste of time to play vehicles below rank III.

When I play this BR range, I spawn the KV-1B and Churchill 3 as well as the Recon Puma. Especially the KV1 is just one BR tick higher and has far better mobility and handling. Super armor which is hard to come by. You won’t suffer to autocannons and cal 50. The 88mm pen are totally enough to deal with almost all threats.

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53

Instead of making it personal or stat-shaming other people try to bring valuable points to the discussion.
Just remember that you’re supposed to respect each other and there are always ways to politely disagree.

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What aa trucks you means? If the aa truck you refered to are Gaz-MM, Zis-12 or Sdkfz6/2=3 then I would say that is you problem. There is no medium tank this br range can stand a chance against medium caliber AA

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100% for 4.3, the G also ought to be 3.7 and the Italian G at 4.0