My exact thought process. I love facing Germany at 3.7 for that exact reason.
I think 4.0 would be fine for it.
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lmfao so I wasn’t only me that called them that. I used to refer to them like that when the EBR was 4.3
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Chi-to and Chi-ri: Am I joke to you?
That’s why balancing by statistics is a bad idea.
T-34 (1942) also used to be 4.3 (or at least 4.0, I don’t remember). KV-1 (ZiS-5) also used to be 4.3, but in this case it has been moved up. T-34 STZ and Panzer IV J used to be 4.0. Panzer IV F2 used to be 3.7. KV-2 used to be 4.0.
KV-1 (ZiS-5) is now 4.7 for some reason, a full BR higher than a Panzer IV H, which used to be at the same BR, even though Panzer IV H can easily deal with a KV-1 (ZiS-5) and Germany overall was a great counter to Russians.
This downwards trend made BRs 4.0-5.0 pretty empty, 4.3 lineups ceased to exist. Now you jump from 3.7 lineups straight to 5.3-6.0 lineups. There are no interesting lineups in between.
You can only make a freak lineup out of rare vehicles like T-34-57, KV-85 or M6 and T1E1 and TDs like Hetzer, Jagdpanzer 4 or a bunch of Russian TDs. Alternatively you can take 1 tank from that BR range and uptier the rest of your tanks, but you will be the only one to do it and it’s not the same vibe.
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This is the kind of comment you’d expect from players who only play Germany.
Can you take a look at other nations, please?
The Chi-To performs similarly to the Panzer IV, yet it has a BR of 4.7.
At the end of the day, it’s just because German players’ skills were generally poor back then, so the Panzer IV’s BR got lowered.
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In 2016, the M4A1 (76)W had a BR of 4.7, the same as the Panzer IV and Chi-To.
Now, in 2024, the 76 Sherman has risen to 5.0, while the Chi-To stays at 4.7, and the Panzer IV has dropped to 3.7.
Objectively, it’s clear that the issue lies with player skills.
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Tbh the Pz. IVs are mostly undertiered, but not by that much. They serve as nice ‘glass cannon’ counterbalances to the more armored Sherman/T-34s, which I think is fine.
Ideally the BRs should be as such:
Pz. IV F2, Pz. IV J, Pz.Bef.Wg.IV J, and Finnish Pz. IV: 3.7
Pz. IV G, Pz. IV H, Italian Pz. IV: 4.0
(J model is at 3.7 due to bad turret traverse, which makes it a sidegrade to the Pz. IV F2 in my opinion.)
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The 76 sherman is straight up better then the Pz. IVH, though…?
Better armor and mobility, plus a verticial stabilizer. The gun is also a tad bit better, and has significantly more filler.
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The 76 M4A1 is objectively better than the Panzer IV.
The F2 is pretty bad actually, 50mm of armor at maximum with the weakest gun of the Panzer IVs (with long 75mm), as well as all the other negatives of the series. I’m fine with it at 3.3, the IV J is better because it has 80mm of UFP armor plus the better gun, turret traverse is lower yes but does it really matter that much?
I think the IV J should be 3.7, and the IV H 4.0. The IV G could either go to 3.7 or 4.0 because of the weaker gun.
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And that is probably overtiered based on what I’ve heard about it.
I wouldn’t want to play a Panzer IV H at 4.7, when I can play the 76mm M4A1 just 0.3 higher.
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I agree that the performance of the 76 Sherman is indeed better than the Panzer IV H, since it has a gyro stabilizer, which we all know is a big advantage at low BR.
However, the performance of the Panzer IV H is undeniably similar to the Chi-To.
I believe the Panzer IV H should at least stay at 4.3, otherwise it would be completely unfair to Japanese players.
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To be fair 2.7 is one of the worst BRs to play for heavy tanks, the Matilda for example is downright useless fighting 3.7 (but it clubs the hell out of 1.7 newbies), similar issue with the B1 Bis. Most 2.7 tanks still use reserve tier guns (or slightly better variations thereof).
Even the better 2.7 tanks such as the Lee have a hard time facing 3.7. Then you have things like the Lago I (which should be more like 1.7) or the aforementioned Matilda facing long barrel Pz IVs with 80mm+ of armor.
For Pete’s sake at 2.3 you have the T-28E, Char 2C, and B1 Bis facing the Pz IV G.
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That’s where it used to be, and I’m fine with it being there, but other will not.
Reducing the rank makes them nonviable for events and daily tasks which pushes players to higher BRs, increasing the grind requirement for new players to be able to participate in events and more condensed playerbase I guess.
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I play USA and CHI GRB. If you bothered reading my entire comment, you’d know that I play other nations. You have a problem dealing with Pz IV then I have a bad news for you…
My point still stands.
I wish people would stop regurgitating this dogmatic opinion spread by a few American Youtubers.
It’s such a complex issue, mainly stemming from the fact that Germany is lacking light tanks (no scouting). Only thing they have is a Puma.
Post your Pz IV stats then if you want to be that guy.
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I dont really understand why are you comparing it to chi-to when it is much more similar to chi-nu II at 4.3. Especially after chi-to got the engine buff.
smth idk why is how apparently with the chi to 4mm more pen= entire br higher than 145
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No, Gaijin wants to force new players up to Br 5-5.7 to do basic rank 3 tasks, by making all of BR 3-4 Rank 3 SPG and SPAA only. Brilliant decision.
Even the puma should be rank 3 like every other nation.
But no, lets nerf germany with rank 2 everything and under-BR all the vehicles.
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Do you know the difference in the number of matches you’ve played with Germany compared to other nations? Don’t try to deny it. Everyone here knows the forum IDs match the in-game ones. Your German match count explains why you’re rarely destroyed by Panzer IVs—your stats with China and the US mostly don’t even fall within the BR range where the Panzer IV appears.
This isn’t some opinion I got from watching someone else’s videos; it’s based on my personal gameplay experience. German players are simply the worst in terms of skill.
In fact, the last thing I want in WWII BR matches is to be teamed up with Germany.
Below is a player average win rate statistic that proves my point. You’ll notice that only the German tech tree has abnormally low win rates.
They often don’t know how to play on maps, can’t identify vehicle weak points, have eyesight as if they’re blind, and don’t even realize when someone’s flanked them from way behind.
Do you know why? German tanks have a lot of fans, so the majority of new players who join the game choose the German line as their first.
It’s not hard to figure out the facts. Please don’t unconditionally defend a nation just because of your personal bias.
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Because the Chi-To’s armor is actually comparable to the Panzer IV H, feel free to compare them in the game. The Chi-To’s additional mobility certainly doesn’t justify it being a full 1.0 BR higher than the Panzer IV H.
Even if I take a step back and compare the more fragile Chi-Nu Kai to the Panzer IV H, it only makes the Panzer IV H sitting at 3.7 an absolute joke.