Pz.Kpf.Wg. M4A4 748 (a) Firefly

Suggestions Ground
22

I don’t believe any of the ammunition you listed was for the captured Firefly, it seems more likely these were shells produced for the 7.62 cm Pa.K 36(r) and other Soviet artillery which they captured en masse (the large number of captured example is why they produced the ammunition for it, unlike 17 Pdr which was very rare in German service). I’ve never seen anything even mention the idea of producing ammunition for western allied guns or artillery.

Also, the Germans captured French, Czech, and many Soviet factories which was one of the major reason they were capable of producing the ammunition for these guns, unlike the western allied factories which were across the sea.

Also also you didn’t list any sources for your claim of them producing ammunition for the 17 pdr.

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23

Thats because i dont have source for that per se, i just read such on other “private” websides (forums etc.) and it seems reasonable, considdering that for a multitude of guns (15-150mm) German and other guns ammo was refitted, so while such is to be taken with a grain of salt, i still added it, cince it was done with other guns as well. But how it ends up in game is still open and decided by the developers.

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24

No. Not unless we are giving Britain a Panther.

25

they have captured vehicles i don’t see why they can’t have this aswell

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26

Because captured vehicles are a plague on the game. Not every nation needs to have every vehicle.

This is my opinion on all captured vehicles. Germany shouldn’t get P-47s or IL-2s. US shouldn’t get zeros and BF-109s, etc.

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27

Ok but if it was added it would go to Germany

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28

But it shouldn’t be added because it’s just a captured firefly with very few changes. Not sure what your point is.

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29

ok but they used it right so

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36

+1 give!!!

37

Add it Germany needs.

38

It was actively used in combat.

39

+1 for the German Firefly, very interesting vehicle and a great event candidate.

In return, we would like to have Cuckoo, the Panther used by 4th Bn Coldstream Guards. Deserter, the Panther used by 145 RAC would also be acceptable.

E̶d̶i̶t̶;̶ i̶n̶ m̶y̶ o̶p̶i̶n̶i̶o̶n̶, t̶h̶e̶ f̶a̶s̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ w̶a̶y̶ f̶o̶r̶ t̶h̶e̶ G̶e̶r̶m̶a̶n̶s̶ t̶o̶ p̶r̶o̶d̶u̶c̶e̶ a̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ f̶o̶r̶ t̶h̶e̶ 1̶7̶p̶d̶r̶ w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ b̶e̶ t̶o̶ r̶e̶m̶o̶v̶e̶ a̶n̶d̶ r̶e̶-̶c̶a̶s̶e̶ t̶h̶e̶ R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ p̶r̶o̶j̶e̶c̶t̶i̶l̶e̶s̶. T̶h̶i̶s̶ i̶s̶ a̶ r̶e̶l̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶l̶y̶ s̶i̶m̶p̶l̶e̶ i̶n̶d̶u̶s̶t̶r̶i̶a̶l̶ p̶r̶o̶c̶e̶s̶s̶ a̶n̶d̶ w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ m̶a̶k̶e̶ f̶o̶r̶ a̶ u̶n̶i̶q̶u̶e̶ g̶u̶n̶ i̶n̶g̶a̶m̶e̶. A̶l̶t̶e̶r̶n̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶l̶y̶, t̶h̶e̶ G̶e̶r̶m̶a̶n̶ 7̶5̶m̶m̶ p̶r̶o̶j̶e̶c̶t̶i̶l̶e̶s̶ m̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ b̶e̶ p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶e̶ t̶o̶ u̶s̶e̶ w̶i̶t̶h̶ a̶ n̶e̶w̶ c̶a̶s̶e̶ a̶n̶d̶ t̶h̶e̶ a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ o̶f̶ a̶ f̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ d̶r̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ b̶a̶n̶d̶ t̶o̶ t̶a̶k̶e̶ u̶p̶ t̶h̶e̶ 1̶.2̶m̶m̶ w̶i̶n̶d̶a̶g̶e̶. T̶h̶i̶s̶ w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ b̶e̶ l̶o̶g̶i̶s̶t̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ s̶i̶m̶p̶l̶e̶r̶ a̶s̶ i̶t̶ w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ a̶v̶o̶i̶d̶ t̶h̶e̶ n̶e̶c̶e̶s̶s̶i̶t̶y̶ o̶f̶ u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ c̶a̶p̶t̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ a̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶. A̶ t̶h̶i̶r̶d̶ o̶p̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ b̶e̶ t̶o̶ u̶s̶e̶ c̶a̶p̶t̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ B̶r̶i̶t̶i̶s̶h̶ a̶m̶m̶u̶n̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶, o̶r̶ e̶v̶e̶n̶ f̶o̶r̶ a̶ m̶i̶x̶ o̶f̶ c̶a̶p̶t̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ a̶n̶d̶ r̶e̶m̶a̶n̶u̶f̶a̶c̶t̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ a̶m̶m̶o̶ t̶o̶ b̶e̶ u̶n̶l̶o̶c̶k̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ m̶o̶d̶i̶f̶i̶c̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶.

Edit2; the German 7,62cm projectiles with a 583mmR casing should be used.

image

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40

As i showed in the post, germany did produce 7,62mm ammo.

Pzgr. 39 Rot APCBC 7,6 kg 20g H.10 (34g TnTa) 890 m/s 191mm/10m

image

Pzgr. 40 APCR 4,15 kg 28x110mm 900 g Coreweight 1050 m/s 210mm/10

image

Sprgr. 39 HE 6,25 kg 550 g Fp.60/40 890 m/s

image

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41

Ah thank you, I read a little further and now I understand.

I agree, the German 7,62cm rounds are the most suitable. They would be perfectly capable of producing the Pzgr.39 in 7,62x583mmR.

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42

There is no evidence whatsoever to support the fact that german-made 76.2mm was even compatible, let alone fired, from British 17 pounders.

76.2mm, or 3 inches, was an extremely common calibre during the war, but just because the width of the projectiles are the same is does not mean:

  • That they would have fit in the same breach

  • That the firing mechanism would have ignited it

  • That the casings would be the same diameter

  • That the ammunition could be stowed within the tank

  • That the barrel and breach could withstand the appropriate propellant pressure

etc etc.

There is so much more to ammunition being compatible than the projectiles being the same diameter, so unless reliable sources can be found, this part of the suggestion is entirely fictional.

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43

There is something called, refitting of cases that have been used. But whatever, it all lays in the hands of the devs.

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44

So you think the germans had the logistical capabilities to collect all the used 17pdr casings they could (not that many considering the germans were retreating 99% of the time the 17pdr was in service), get the casings back to the relevant factories (probably only a handful of factories with the appropriate tooling and production lines in the whole of germany, less and less by the day), dedicate production line capacity and time to probably less than 100 individual collected casings? and then send a bespoke shipment of refurbished 17pdr rounds to supply a tiny handful of captured vehicles, which may or may not have been lost or recaptured by this point in time.

This is all while germany is in the midst of a manufacturing and logistical crisis, with constant fuel and material shortages.

Okay, sure. Life must be freeing not being burdened by having to back up your claims with evidence.

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45

Yeah, i dont see any reason to even bother about you.
Yes, as i wrote befor, i dont have real source, beyond reading it in some forum.
But still, such what you wrote is realisticly speaking quite possible.
Conciddering that it was also practice to keep spend casings and return them to the ammo depo, as germany needed the metal and casings.

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46

Okay, and brits took the projectiles from the Panther long 75, put it in used QF 75mm casings, and blew up king tigers with it from inside a cromwell V.

Source: same as you (I made it up)

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47

Considdering that the Pzgr. 39/42 is the same as Pzgr.39 just with a 2nd driving band, and the USA used K.Gr.Rot Pz in their M2 and M3 cannons when M61 wasnt yet availabe, as well as in the grand father of it the Pak 97/38 the K.Gr Pz (p) was used it is possible.
But there is still a difference between needing and not.

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