Yes but the thing i can’t Understand its why don’t remove it totally and give gift in compensation for all player who have the panther II and the tiger 10.5. Because if the reason is the history accuracy in game they failed it cause i play lot of game with these tank in my squad and thats why im frustrated to see them and not to be able to play them… The Gajin explanation makes no sense when you play at the br 6.7…
I never say its exist i just say its more realistic cause the Panther F turret cannot support the 88 mm on the actual WT Panther 2 and the 10.5 look like shit ont the actual WT tigre 2 10.5. Maybe if those tank look like more realistic it will be better for their owner but don’t solve the problem that lot of player see it in game but can’t play them.
Paper tanks will be in Tue later or sooner, it’s already happening on ships
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There were 6 Obj. 906 fully completed. 2 of them took tests.
If you actually take time to research you will see all Object in game existed, if it wouldnt be true we would have Object 530, better ZSU-57-2 in game. Object 530 was a proposal. Or 2S28, basically a wheeled Sprut, a proposal.
Or Abrams SPAA that I dont remember name of but it was just a proposal.
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I don’t want paper stuff, just a rework of the paper tank been removed for New player so every body can play with more realistic paper tank and not just old player. Conclusion remove it for all, Rework it for all (better option for me who like the e50 and the e75 project even if it didn’t exist) or give it back to all. Cause the historical reason mean no sense when you play in 6.7 and see those fake paper tank with no real plan while there were projects like the e50 and the e75 design by real german engineer and not gajin engineer.
Later or sooner there will probably be paper tanks anyway, because already there is nothing to add to the tree in many countries, there are two options: either the new updates will have little content just to have something to add for as long as possible, or add paper vehicles, which is already happening in ships, wait like this another 10 years, when the tanks run out, maybe the tiger 105 will come back.
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Paper vehicles should be on the table as additions so long as A) We know enough about them to make a faithful representation and B) They fill a role that no other actually produced tank could fill. I think both are true for the E-50, and are arguably true for the E-75.
The E-50 would be an important addition to the German tree because they seriously lack a mobile and versatile medium tank at that tier. It’s what causes so many players to complain about how useless Tiger IIs are in uptiers, because there’s pretty limited alternatives. You basically have the Bulldog and the 4-5, neither of which are particularly flexible when it comes to gameplay. Gaijin tried to fix this by moving an M 48 down to 6.7, which I think demonstrates how desperate they are to find something to fill that gap. The E-50 is really the only candidate to fill this gap that I’m aware of.
However, the E-50 would likely be too good for 6.7, putting it probably around 7.0, possibly 7.3. Which is a problem because then it still lacks a lineup. So we need another to bulk up that lineup. Which is where the E-75 comes in, effectively being an uparmored but slower Tiger II 105. It’s less crucial than the E-50, as we in no way lack for slow, armored German tanks at the tier, but it would still be a good addition along with the E-50 for lineup cohesion.
And hey, while we’re at it, we can fix the E-100 to it’s proper model too (It was never intended to use the Maus turret, that was a standin for technical drawings while the real turret was still being worked on).
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I can see what you mean, and that you’re frustrated with the way Gaijin handled the removal. To be honest, they didn’t really do a good job (in some ways) with the removal. They announced the removal of the tanks months in advance (officially only 2 weeks, but they mentioned it way earlier), which meant everyone playing at the time had a ton of time to grind out at least 1 rp in each vehicle and unlock it forever. So it’s a common vehicle to see on the battlefield (which destroys the “its not historical” argument only somewhat, since yes new players can’t get it but they see them all the time). I feel like Gaijin should reintroduce the vehicles as pure event vehicles, like the Maus, or have some other condition for unlocking them (say researching all other available vehicles or something else unfair). Locking them out permanently but having so many older players keeping them scott free is a weird choice (but the best one they had at the time). Also, “real German engineers” designed the Tiger 2 10.5, Panther II, and Coelian, wasn’t Gaijibbles.
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Totally agree with you but the real Panther 2 was made at one copy. The actual panther 2 in game with panther f turret cannot fit a 88mm kwk43 and the crew so in real Life they put the kwk42 75 mm on the turret of the Panther G with tigre Engine and an uparmored
No they didn’t. The ingame Panther II is a complete fabrication. It was never intended to use the long 88, nor a new engine, nor a better transmission, nor that turret. It was just a midly uparmored Panther F that was easier to manufacture.
Meanwhile, the Tiger II 105 is flatly impossible as depicted. There is not enough space within a Tiger II’s turret for the breach of the 105, much less an additional loader and a rangefinder.
It may not have been Gaijin that made these vehicles up (World of Tanks also has these fake versions of them as well), but they certainly aren’t accurate representations of real projects from the war.
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oh shizzle me bad
If you have accurate sources, make a bug report.
Well kinda. They made a hull, and then the Americans put a turret on it after the war after they tested it without the turret.
Since its an american modification. Probably suitable for the US tree. That way they also have a Panther
The Panther II hull existed and had another G turret slapped on top. The E-50 and E-75 never existed, never built even produced. It is merely a figment of people’s imagination since it is merely a paper design.
However, the Panther II that was planned never came as I stated a German designer realized putting metal skirt armor was cheaper and did the same goal that the Panther II was meant to fulfill which was to mitigate AT Rifle’s effectiveness.
There is a difference between a fake vehicle and a paper vehicle. Fake vehicles have no historical basis and have no place in WT. Paper vehicles, however, do have about as much historical precidence as prototype vehicles, the only difference being an inability or unwillingness to throw a protoype together for further testing.
Paper vehicles offer an important source of new, historically accurate vehicles for War Thunder, and allow Gaijin to fill gaps that no other real vehicles can fill. It need not descend into WoT style fictional lunacy with complete inventions or vehicles that are flat out impossible. We can simply stick to paper vehicles that we know enough about to make accurate representations of, and ones that fill gaps that no other real vehicles can fill.
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They was a « panther 2 » at one copy but not the initial project who look like way more to the e50 project but it was cancelled for lack of ressource and time it was suppose to made a new turret to fit the 88mm and the crew, an uparmored and a Maybach HL230 V-12 Engine but in April 1944 an american bombing raid put the Maybach factory out. That why i think some engineer continu the project of the Panther 2 with the e50 but never build one.
A paper vehicle is just as fake as a fake design. The only difference is that a fake vehicle never existed in the first place.
However, a paper design may have existed it does not mean it was produced meaning it has no place in the game. This is why they hid those 4 tanks.
For the Maus, it comes yearly, and if someone brings up the Ho-Ri and R2Y2. There is no replacement at this moment. So they remain.
In other words, “A paper vehicle is just as fake as a fake vehicle. The only difference is that a fake vehicle is fake.”. I honestly don’t have a response to that.
The actual difference is, as previously stated, the project lacked the resources, or the political willpower, to produce a prototype. Meaning that if things had gone just a bit differently, the paper vehicle may well have actually seen a prototype or even production. That to me is very different than a project that never actually happened at the time and had no chance of ever being produced. One has a historical basis, the other does not.
The only reason to reject a paper design over a prototype is if A) The design is flatly impossible with the given specs (Kronstadt, Tiger II 105, etc), B) We don’t know enough about the project to make an accurate representation of it, or C) you believe the project was beyond the ability of the nation in question to produce. I don’t believe the E-50 and 75 fall into any of these catagories. They were fairly sensible designs (At least compared to stuff like the Maus), would be good additions to the game.
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Here’s a better depiction. A Koeilian with a wooden turret and 2 37mm’s.
The Kronstadt was built in 1941. We know what the armaments, armor, etc were meant to be including placements however, we do not know how they would perform. Nor its viability.
While the E-50 and E-75 do not fall into those categories, they were not produced in any form of design. Making them by default rejected from being added to the game at this moment. Perhaps in the future it will but its clear it won’t any time soon.
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The Kronstadt was never built. It was laid down, in the most technical sense, as in the keel was laid down, but the two ships, Kronstadt and Sevastapol, only reached ~10.6% and 11.4% respecticely. That’s about the same a building the basic frame of a tank without even attaching the armor or any of the internal systems, and claiming that it was built.
Every single one of it’s internal systems was either impossible or incredibly behind schedule. The Soviet Union was completely incapable of producing cemented armor of that thickness (The quoted max being 230mm compared to the planned 330mm), resulting in using inferior face hardened armor instead, which would have significantly reduced it’s effectiveness. This is not depicted in game. Also, relatedly, of the tiny amount of armor that was produced, around 30-40% of it was rejected for being under specifications.
The hulls were altered to use the German 15 inch guns and turrets (Bought from the Germans during the MR pact), and this is also not depicted in game. They instead use the originally planned 305mm guns, and neither they nor the turrets they were intended to fit in had a functioning prototype before the ships were cancelled. The same is true for the secondary battery turrets of 152mm and 100mm guns, which were also incomplete. And of course the powerplant, of which not a single turbine was produced, either for these ships or the equally unbuilt Sovetsky Soyuz class.
In terms of the 3 requirements I laid out, the Kronstadt fails two of them. It was beyond the ability of the Soviets to produce, and it’s not an accurate representation of it.
Meanwhile, the Coelian was entirely within the ability of the Germans to produce, we know enough about the project to make an accurate repesentation of it, and it’s completely possible to do (As the wooden mockup proves).
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