Don’t forget the best in class gun depression, at 12 degrees.
I’m not completely sold on it going up again, against 9.7s it’s mediocre choice of rounds and no laser rangefinder are going to hurt it pretty severely. However, I wouldn’t object to it either. It needs decompression.
Tiger II:
IS-3 should stay 7.3, T26E5 should move to 7.0, 8.3s should move up to at least 8.7. Decompression can help a lot with it all. Let’s say there’s 3 vehicles respectively at 1.0, 1.3, and 1.7. These vehicles are: M22, IS-6, Strv 122. These are in no way on par with each other but when you extend the BR range you get: 2.0, 7.7, 12.0. Raise more, raise higher, 2.3, 8.3, 13.0. Sooner or later, BRs are more realistic and queue times stay relatively the same because it’s all just based on BR
And then load times drastically increase.
The Pershing Jumbo is equal to the Tiger II H, with the tiger being much more bearable in uptiers, and at non CQC ranges. It also has more reliable armour in downtiers due to the lack of an easy to pen MG port.
It’s overtiered at 8.0.
Yes, because they have a very thorough lineup of decent tanks, as well as some of the best CAS in the game for their BR.
The IS-6 had too strong of a hull for 7.3, and it had tiny weakspots for that BR too. The T29 also has the same MG port weakspot, as well as a weaker LFP, and easier to hit turret weakspots. And that’s ignoring it’s awful ammo placement that makes angling your turret impossible.
The cent mk.10 and it’s swedish counterpart are nowhere near equal to 8.3 tanks.
Faster depending on the map. The rakaten ans U-SH are equal, one trades extra mobility on some maps for vastly less survivability and ammo, while the other is much more survivable, but it has a lower top speed.
'Tis a bit sus
Load times are a small price to pay for enjoyment and balance tbh
My response to this is No. Since you put so many vehicles at a BR they were lowered cause they performed poorly. Which tells me you never used them. Except dying to them. Nor bothered to think to yourself why they were at this BR.
Uhm what are you smoking? They both get all the benefits if not more than the 6.0
They are stronger than Italy’s Tigris and the No.06
My mistake, I forgot that premiums which have smoke do not display them on the statcard, despite being effectively spaded.
Regardless, I’ll restate my opinion that I’d trade smoke grenades for a frontal armor profile that can be rendered immune from the US 75 and 76mm (And similar guns) even at point blank ranges.
Especially since the track armor doesn’t actually make the Tiger immune to any rounds it isn’t already resistant to. The 90mm can still go through at close range, regardless of angle. So can 17 pounder AP. And the Russian 85mm.
The only rounds that track armor can consistently help against is the US 75mm when flat, and the 76mm when angled. At the cost of a cupola that allows those same guns to easily disable the tank regardless. Meanwhile, the base Tiger E with no track armor is also immune to those guns with appropriate angling, and has no weak cupola to exploit.
But hey, I guess you can smoke up after being disabled and pray you somehow manage to outreact the stabilized tank that did it to you next time. That basically makes them balanced, right?
Luchs 7.7 > 8.0
This is senseless and not thought out at all, but someone else already described why so I won’t say more than that.
Df105 8.0 > 8.3
I don’t see the justification for this. It’s unstabilised, only fires HEAT (which isn’t bad, but personally I prefer APDS, and it certainly isn’t the best option), is paper (light tank, admittedly), and isn’t really that much faster than the other fast-tanks around that BR, and lacks a lot of the technology that many 8.3s have. Its sole advantage is the 5.0s autoloader, which is good, but not all that game-breaking, so to speak.
Gepard 8.3 > 8.7
While the Gepard is good, it isn’t the fastest, and has an extremely large profile. It is also a bit worse than the various Gepard clones (though not worse enough that I’d have it lower than most of them). The problem with moving the Gepard and its clones up is that this is one of the few BRs where AA actually feels potent against CAS, and since its anti-tank performance isn’t too dominant (that is to say, again, good but not outright OP) I’d prefer to avoid setting a trend of uptiering AA when they actually reach a state of workability.
Begleitpanzer 57 9.3 > 9.7 or 10.0
This puts it potentially .3 below the PUMA, which I’ve heard many people consider overtiered as is, and puts it in the same region as 2S38 (which is admittedly undertiered, and thus not a perfect reason not to move it up). As is, it’s a full BR above the first Bradley, which seems more reasonable; that is to say, from my perception, it is about 1.0 BR worth better than the first Bradley in capability, and that’s about where it is in BR now.
The Begleitpanzer I am admittedly less certain about, as I’ve only somewhat recently had much experience with it and Germany doesn’t have any usable IFVs before that I can compare its gameplay to, so I’m still getting used to the general IFV gameplay (the Marder is effectively a poor AA gun with a poor single-fire ATGM). If anyone else wants to weigh in more on comparing it to other IFVs that would be good.
I’m only speaking on the German stuff because it’s the main stuff I’ve played and can speak on, especially after the various BR changes over the past year have messed with my memory of a lot of the balancing. This is also why I haven’t discussed the Panther D and proto-Panther, as I don’t know how those BRs currently play.
I have played everything mentioned.
I haven’t listed Israel as I haven’t played them.
The Begel is an extremely potent multi role that is under br’d
The German mains cried when the puma went up in br because it wasn’t able to stomp all over 8.3s anymore. Yes, I remember when it came into the game at 8.3 within a few week it went to 8.7, 9.0, 9.3 it is still so potent it continues to climb, but I think it’s current br is fine.
Df105 can bounce early APFSDS, has a 5 sec load time, and good HEAT that normally 1 taps.
The gepard can kill Soviet 8.3 heavies with ease, and shred most tanks including m60s with no trouble. Unlike the Sidam or zsu-23-4 (the former being the worst 8.3 aa in game)
Although the Wiesel could swap places with the luchs so the Wiesel could be 7.7 instead, however it has no turret.
Look up what you’re talking about before you continue to speak. They’re 5.7 and better than the other nation’s tigers
Neither the Wiesel nor the Luchs should be moved up, and if anything the Luchs should be moved down (balance wise that is, my own sensibilities prefer modern stuff be kept away from ww2 stuff regardless of balance). The gun is mediocre at attacking some things, but it’s effectively a larger .50 cal and can’t even pen half the things it sees at point blank range in the side.
I haven’t played the PUMA before, so I’m going off of reputation, but it seems like the main reason I see people disagree with moving it down or propose moving it up is the protection, not its speed or gun performance (which seem significantly more important for a vehicle of that class). From what I’ve heard, a fair few people think it should be closer to 10.0 or 9.7.
Df105 is a Marder with a tank cannon. There are comparable vehicles in other trees with similar reloads that are similar in BR, and I think some that are actually lower in BR. The fact that it has a fast reload is the only reason I’m willing to use the HEAT, and to be honest I’d much rather have some form of APHE. As to bouncing APFSDS, that’s not an actual trait of it, that’s you getting Snailed. Anything with some angle to it will occasionally bounce things it shouldn’t, this is just another case of strange things happening that don’t make sense. It’s not even a case of having trolly/volumetric armour.
As to the Gepard, it is again the worst of the various Gepard variants in the game (mostly by being the first one). If you move it up, the rest need to be moved up as well (I assume that was your intent, but most were not listed). If anything, I’d say other things being worse than it (provided they are worse enough, there’s a side where things are close enough in performance to not justify a change) might justify moving them down rather than moving it up.
HEAT very rarely one-taps. Hence why I’d prefer APHE for a fast flanking tank.
Tracks and wood aren’t 1 to 1. You have to test them specifically. In this case, they help against the US 75mm but not much against the US 76mm (which I am using because they are easy benchmarks). Somewhat notably, the wood has very good effectiveness against HEAT rounds (as shown in the third image). Also somewhat notably, and I hope this is fixed but it probably won’t be, the individual sticks of wood seem vulnerable to volumetric, if I’m understanding that correctly (fourth image).
You just have a cupola shaped blindspot, don’t you?
Frankly, implying that I haven’t even looked at the armor profile of these vehicles is rather condescending. Of course I have, I’ve even taken the time to see how much those add on tracks actually affects the guns that will be firing on them, and it’s not very much. I’m not restating it, it was all up in that previous comment of mine you bulldozed through to make a point. To sum it up, the tracks only help against guns the Tiger can already make itself immune to by angling without them, and does nothing to protect the cupola.
Seriously, just shoot the cupola. It’s a huge, rounded target that’s always available if the Tiger’s aiming his gun at you, and if you or he are cresting a ridge you’ll get a shot on it long before he gets a shot on you in return.
The only time that’s not an option is when you’re stuck with solid shot, however it’s worth reminding you that all solid shot at the tier except 77mm AP can go right through the front armor, tracks or no tracks, angled or not, at any useful combat range. So there’s simply no need to rely on the cupola for such tanks.
I have played all those Tigers… there is only an advantage to the german ones, to disagree means you are being biased for Germany
Nor will a smart player leave themselves as open as your propose, they will angle, and I’m talking all of the tigers. Sorry the Italians and Japanese players tend to be more skilled.
I don’t deny that the Two Fronts Pack screams of pay to win, but you’re overestimating the difference the add on armour will make. I also do not think it counts as bias to say that the country that makes a tank should have the better version of said tank. That won’t always be the case depending on reality, but it certainly can’t be called bias.
Aegis270’s statement outright assumes angling is occurring on the part of the Tiger player. If, as you are assuming, the Tiger is not angling, then this is even less of a problem than we’re saying.
That’s assuming I’m understanding you correctly though; to be candid, your statement here wasn’t terribly coherent, and it took me a moment to parse.
So all the other T72s and T90s, cent mk. 10s etc all need to go up in br in other nations?
Assuming both targets have their turrets facing towards you, thus negating the turret cheek weakspot, which has the advantage? Would it maybe be the the without a weakspot the 76mm can go through?
IS-6 to 7.3 has to be a joke.
So here’s the problem. Either the premium 2 front needs to be 6.0 or the other tigers become 5.7 there is no argument to be had the armor is better especially on heavy tank no.6 with no add on armor or smokes
