Premium F/A-18C unnecessary asymetry

[Lolman345]

• Yes Equalize and Upgrade Both
• No do Not Equalize and Upgrade Both
• Re-BR both aircraft
• Other

Forgot to add this in to the poll, option 3 is actually “Re-BR both aircraft with or without changes” So it should have probably been a separate poll

Since I’ve not gotten a response yet I’m going to go ahead and produce a new topic on this subject.

This thread is based upon a direct statement produced by Smin within the Swiss F/A-18C hornet’s loadout discussion thread, that being the following.

Swiss hornets loadouts

Hello As long as a weapon is technically compatible with the aircraft (that is, the functionality was not removed), then its open to consideration. Its not required for the weapon to have been purchased by that given nation. There are many examples of aircraft across multiple nations with this.

With this in mind, a glaring issue arises between two vehicles which are not only being sold for the exact same price, but also the exact same BR and airframe, yet, both mount equipment and ordinance that should not be varied, yet such is the case.

I would also like to re-iterate that the US premium “F/A-18C (Early)” had numerous bug reports put forward for missing equipment and ordinance when it arrived, and all of these reports were denied on the basis that the aircraft either A : Never carried said weapons or equipment and B : was deemed as not needed for the aircraft at it’s BR.

A number of these items however have been now added to the new premium Swiss F/A-18C now present in the German tree for the same price and residing at the same BR, namely,

EGBU bombs
The AN/AAS-38B
The standard F/A-18C expanded countermeasure pods
The AN/APG-73
The F404-GE-402
And lastly, if the pilot model is actually accurate, a HMD

All of the above are SUBSTANTIAL upgrades over the F/A-18C (Early) that resides at the same exact BR and at the same premium price within the US tree and all were requested and denied for addition when the F/A-18C (Early) was first released as a premium.

With this in mind, and the statement made by Smin above, I see no reason as to why both aircraft should not be equalized.

What do I mean by “Equalized”?

The Swiss F/A-18C happens to miss out on a number of A2G options that the US F/A-18C (Early) does happen to sport, and per Smin, the only limiting factor for either aircraft to sport these weapons is to have the ability to deploy them, which, as far as I am aware, it can. These further additions can also expand to the tech tree Swiss hornets as well given they are all sequential developments of the premium F/A-18C present in the tree.

Thus, I would request that both aircraft have both their onboard equipment be made the same, with both aircraft sporting the highest performance options that both aircraft currently have, along with sharing their ordinance options so that both nations field equally capable aircraft and get their full money’s worth out of their possible purchase.

Edit : Since I’m not up for grinding on the main server and dev does not count so I cant post, still no change on this dev, the Swiss premium is still vastly superior and at the same BR and price.

[Zulizia]

@Lolman345

And lastly, if the pilot model is actually accurate, a HMD

Pretty sure all aircraft have just the default pilot model, same goes for the F-2A / XF-2A ADTW

no HMS or HMD yet in game

XF-2A ADTW in game for reference, never tested HMD or used it. F-2A Late possibly tested HMD, but no official evidence iirc

[quartas121]

No reason for US one not to have the stuff listed but no A2G is accurate for Swiss

US one should get all the stuff listed and Swiss should get a2g removed

[Lolman345]

@Zulizia

Pretty sure all aircraft have just the default pilot model, same goes for the F-2A / XF-2A ADTW

Happens to be the pilot model copied from the tech tree F/A-18C (Late) in the US tree, the aircraft itself is functionally just the late but with a far reduced weapons load right now.

@Zulizia

no HMS or HMD yet in game

Emphasis on yet, and for what its worth, I would not be against both getting such, as well as the XF-2A ADTW as that aircraft did prototype a Japanese HMD. The F-2A should also sport it.

@quartas121

No reason for US one not to have the stuff listed but no A2G is accurate for Swiss

IRL yes I agree, however, per the rational Smin gave above, and being the route Gaijin is now taking for what weapons an aircraft can have in game, I am opting to push for the maximum number of satisfied parties involved. Thus, I wish to adhere rigidly to this sentiment and allow all aircraft the absolute maximum carriage and equipment options possible for them universally.

[Zulizia]

@Lolman345

as well as the XF-2A ADTW as that aircraft did prototype a Japanese HMD

Yes and No. We don’t know which prototype sported the Prototype HMD (could be the later F-2B ADTWs or Service F-2As) but we do know that F-2As now have HMD, but only when upgraded to the AAM-5 standard. Same with the F-15J (Pre-JMSIP). So I doubt Gaijin will give it HMD until the AAM-5. Same with F-15J possibly.

Edit - Its not concrete if F-2A actually was upgraded to HMD standard. I was under the impression it was as AAM-5s were made with HMD in mind iirc. There are official documents proving an upgrade w/ HMD were proposed, but whether implemented is up for question. There’s theories of XF-2As having tested HMD but nothing official or concrete.

[Lolman345]

We will have to see, although I will say that regardless, I support it getting it if it had the capability as per Smin’s statement. Such is in the end more of a conversation for the F-2A thread though so I will stop here regarding it.

[Haller_Keats]

Agreed, Gaijin denied multiple bug reports of both vehicles based on “balancing” claims. When you pull an issue regarding balance, gaijin tells you it’s “not realistic”, and when you pull an issue on realistic replication, gaijin tells you “we need balance”

[Lolman345]

So dev got a major update and a number of changes and additions were made, however, the premium asymmetry is still present.

Such needs to be addressed for aircraft that are nearly identical bar one just being flat out better if they are both being sold as premiums.

The Swiss hornet either needs to be equalized with the US one as both are premiums with the same buy in price and BR, or the Swiss hornet needs to be moved up in BR as it is the same aircraft but with vastly superior performance.

[Lolman345]

Welp, the pack purchase is now live for the Swiss hornet and it is still exactly the same as it was at the start of the dev server, same exact BR as the C Early in the US tree as well.

I guess Gaijin is fine with selling the same aircraft but better in a majority of ways a bit later in another tree for more profit.

PSA do not buy the US F/A-18C Early, it is a direct downgrade to the Swiss F/A-18C hornet yet is being sold for the exact same price.

This is despicable.

[ItsOnyy]

You know the pricing is a fixed value depending on the rank, right?

[GALWAYLION-live]

Hey man, you don’t need to use the air to ground stuff, let the Swiss be able to play CAS. There’s a reason why the Swedish have the worst Hornet in the game, and it’s absolutely stupid that we have to research an additional 420k points just to get a viable F-18 for Sweden.

[Lolman345]

Matters not, you are still paying the same price for the same product but better currently.

Had the Swiss hornet sported a different BR this would not be an issue, but as it stands right now it is the same aircraft but better at the same BR.

[Zulizia]

What are the differences so far? iirc BOL was taken off of Devblog so that was removed im assuming, it didn’t get HMD. So only AN/AAS + AN/APG + F404 or?

[Lolman345]

Everything listed in the OP minus the HMD.

[Zulizia]

I think a BR increase would be better, as iirc all of those said upgrades came later in the -18C production (minus HMD)

[Sternlos]

America does kinda get shafted, f4s is the best sparrow phantom locked behind a paywal. F20 locked behind paywal, low br f5 behind paywall.

If its accurate it is what it is, but moving it up to 13.0 makes it dead on arrival. Slightly better engines and more cm doesn’t make it 13.0 material you can thank compression for the situation, but even with that in mind I dont see these being different BR. You have things like su33 vs su27 at 13.0 and the margins there are a lot bigger than here, and many other cases.

[Lolman345]

@Sternlos

Slightly better engines and more cm doesn’t make it 13.0 material you can thank compression for the situation

Its not slightly better engines, the Late C sports almost 10000 fpm of climb rate over the Early C, to that same end the AN/APG-73 is a large upgrade over the 65 and provides vastly superior tracking, not to mention its not just some more countermeasures, it literally doubled, 60 to 120.

To crown it all off the Swiss hornet has a superior TGP and EGBUs, meanwhile the Early C has no GPS guided munitions.

Aircraft have been sent up to higher BRs for far less than this.

[Sternlos]

In deep missile BRs? What examples? I can see below like 11.0, not up here. Ground ordinance doesn’t matter at all in arb and should only affect grb rating.

And aren’t the engines just ~10% better? idk what 10000 freedom units is or what to even compare it to.

[railgunDE112]

which is bad

[Lolman345]

The F/A-18A for getting 7Ms even though they are functionally identical to the 7Fs it has, all of the A-10s, the A-6E getting skippers, which, you yourself admit are largely irrelevant in ARB, the F-16A still being dragged up even though it lacks any long range options, and of course, the poor F-14s, specifically the B, getting tossed up because the Persian F-14 is op.

To that same end the Swiss hornet still sports the exact same GRB br so that argument is moot as well.

And no, the C early sports a climb rate of roughly 40000 fpm, the C late sports a climb rate of 48900 fpm, such is a substantial improvement in performance, and I’m sorry you don’t understand aviation standard, but fpm is the universal measure of climb rate per ICAO.