Potential 8.7 tech tree tanks for USA

[Pangolin_Fan]

8.7 has alot of great CAS options for America, but only a single tech tree tank. I believe we should fix this.

There’s a handful of vehicles I believe are good candidates for an 8.7 role.

• M5 Ripsaw
• XM800T equipped with TOWs
• T95 medium tank

Let’s start with the first, the M5 ripsaw.

The M5 Ripsaw is an unmanned light tank produced from 2009 to the present day. An unarmed ripsaw has a 0-60 (mph) of 3.5 seconds which would make it the fastest tank in Warthunder. Finding information on what weapons the M5 used is difficult, however I believe it is compatible with grenade launchers, which could potentially be weak enough to balance out the mobility.

Next, an XM800T armed with TOWs

This one is self explanatory, It’s an XM800T with TOWs. Taken as the normal XM800T is 8.3, an XM800T with TOWs would be a great 8.7 option. The TOWs have a number of advantages and disadvantages over the 20mm autocannon, and the rise of ERA, APS, and composite armor would limit the TOWs effectiveness against a large number of targets.

Third, the T95 medium tank
There’s a large number of different T95 variants, but the two most plausible candidates in my opition are the T95 with pneumatic suspension and a starship turret, and either the T95E4/E6/E3.

The starship turret works very well on the M60A2, so I believe the T95’s pneumatic suspension and smaller silhouette would make for an even better tank.

The T95E3, E4, and E6 are also pretty self explanatory, providing a firepower upgrade. I don’t know much about the individual cannons or the FCS, so I can’t say for certain which would be the best candidate.

I’d also love some to hear about some over potential 8.7 vehicles.

[TankerDman]

Holy shit the m5 is like a xm800 on turbocrack. If the grenade launchers are like the ones on the ah1g i could see it being extremely strong.
T95 is a must at this point, the more i’ve learned about the project the more i’ve wanted to see them in game. Plenty of interesting variants, and the base t95 with it’s weird rangefinder and stab would be a great way to introduce more of them.

[Caernarvon02]

tow launcher xm800t at 8.7 are you insane?

@Pangolin_Fan

M5 Ripsaw

things unmanned so would go against how we all knock out tanks, killing crew. Would be a challenge balancing this thing from it

@Pangolin_Fan

XM800T equipped with TOWs

at 8.7?! the standard XM800T should be there (with its LRF admittedly) slap TOW on the thing and we are looking at a 9.0+ vehicle as it will outperform everyone in speed, be small and have good missiles

@Pangolin_Fan

T95 medium tank

this one I get. will be cool to see all those variants too

[Pangolin_Fan]

@TankerDman

Holy shit the m5 is like a xm800 on turbocrack. If the grenade launchers are like the ones on the ah1g i could see it being extremely strong.

I think it was the Apache’s grenade launchers

@Caernarvon02

at 8.7?! the standard XM800T should be there (with its LRF admittedly) slap TOW on the thing and we are looking at a 9.0+ vehicle as it will outperform everyone in speed, be small and have good missiles

Seeing how the Wiesel, Bradley, and M901 perform, an XM800T with TOWs at 8.7 wouldn’t be very overpowered. The Bradley has a massive reliance on its powerful autocannon, especially against light tanks, Russian tanks, backshots, and in CQC.

Above all, the biggest nerf imo is that
→ XM800T with TOWs can’t fire on the move ←
Being fully stabilized is one of the things that makes the XM800T so good, and TOWs would take that from it.

@Caernarvon02

things unmanned so would go against how we all knock out tanks, killing crew. Would be a challenge balancing this thing from it

Yeah the M5 is kinda a long shot. Unmanned vehicles are an extremely complicated issue. Gajin could potentially add some form of electronic parts which would act like crew members. Another thing to think about is how repairing would work.

[Caernarvon02]

@Pangolin_Fan

Seeing how the Wiesel, Bradley, and M901 perform, an XM800T with TOWs at 8.7 wouldn’t be very overpowered

please now compare the mobility of a bradley, wiesel, M901 and the XM800T and come back to me.

Armament isn’t everything, how you can position and move that armament is far far more valuable every single time.

@Pangolin_Fan

Above all, the biggest nerf imo is that
→ XM800T with TOWs can’t fire on the move ←
Being fully stabilized is one of the things that makes the XM800T so good, and TOWs would take that from it.

Ratel 20 cant fire its milan on the move but its still OP as all hell at its BR despite having no armour and only good mobility do get into power spots

a vastly superior weapon on something that beats out the fox in everything but top speed is going to be higher than a peer of the same armament

@Pangolin_Fan

Yeah the M5 is kinda a long shot. Unmanned vehicles are an extremely complicated issue. Gajin could potentially add some form of electronic parts which would act like crew members. Another thing to think about is how repairing would work.

would have to be unrepairable unless by a teammate or at points, I guess adding a severe damage system to it would have to be its “kill” feature, so if you’re firepower and mobility killed at once or a vital component like engine or electrical system is knocked, would be easy as its unarmoured too

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Caernarvon02

please now compare the mobility of a bradley, wiesel, M901 and the XM800T and come back to me.

Armament isn’t everything, how you can position and move that armament is far far more valuable every single time.

Again, the Bradley and M901 both suck without using autocannons.

@Caernarvon02

Ratel 20 cant fire its milan on the move but its still OP as all hell at its BR despite having no armour and only good mobility do get into power spots

It’s 6.7. The XM800T will be facing targets it can’t pen, targets with LRF, on average faster tanks, and no autocannon.

@Caernarvon02

would have to be unrepairable unless by a teammate or at points, I guess adding a severe damage system to it would have to be its “kill” feature, so if you’re firepower and mobility killed at once or a vital component like engine or electrical system is knocked, would be easy as its unarmoured too

Yes, that could make for an interesting dynamic of fastest (and one of the smallest) tanks in the game, but will die to the weakests of sneezes.

I think the M5 can withstand 12.7mm machine gun fire and has electric motors instead of engine though.

Edit: It’s electric diesel hybrid

[Caernarvon02]

@Pangolin_Fan

Bradley and M901 both suck without using autocannons

because they are slow and fat so compensate with a chaingun

@Pangolin_Fan

It’s 6.7. The XM800T will be facing targets it can’t pen, targets with LRF, on average faster tanks, and no autocannon.

ok. the point of higher than almost all competitions mobility and a highly effective armament makes something OP no matter BR.

also the TOW will absolutely pen things at 8.7 easy. Only the early T64s at 9.3/7 will offer some resistance, even then TOW carves through. Also the Wiesel with TOW is 9.7, and does mighty fine with 2b missiles despite seeing modern ish MBTs all the time

@Pangolin_Fan

Yes, that could make for an interesting dynamic of fastest (and one of the smallest) tanks in the game, but will die to the weakests of sneezes.

got to sneeze on it tho and its a fast little git, bush it up and its invisible stationary on most maps

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Caernarvon02

also the TOW will absolutely pen things at 8.7 easy. Only the early T64s at 9.3/7 will offer some resistance, even then TOW carves through. Also the Wiesel with TOW is 9.7, and does mighty fine with 2b missiles despite seeing modern ish MBTs all the time

Wiesel gets TOW2s. The XM800T would likely have TOWs or I-TOWs which would be hard countered by T-55AMs (very common) and anything with LRF, like Pzh 2000.

I really don’t think that one of the worst SACLOS rank 6 missiles put on an XM800T without an autocannon or machine gun would be overpowered at 8.7.

The situations you talk about are all perfect scenarios, which means XM800T would have to get to a position overlooking enemy’s movement paths, with no trees/bushes/buildings/fences, and you need to get there without dying, and even then, you have to avoid getting LRF sniped by an HE or HEATFS whilst your missile is traveling.

Alot of maps don’t have reasonable spots that meet all these requirements.

It’s hard to compare the XM800T to other tanks to gauge how well it would perform because all the tanks I can think of that are similar are bad.

Edit: Turm III has no LRF. I was thinking of the wrong tank

[Caernarvon02]

@Pangolin_Fan

Wiesel gets TOW2s. The XM800T would likely have TOWs or I-TOWs which would be hard countered by T-55AMs (very common) and anything with LRF, like Pzh 2000 or Turm III.

which is why I mentioned that it gets them and despite them not being too super by then still does good

the T55 AM is one vehicle which kinda counters them unless you arent shooting center mass like most ATGM players do for some stupid reason

and everything is countered by the disease that is PZH2000 or most lrf capable tanks at extreme range.

ATGMs I’ve found better as semi close range weapons to hold corners and smack anyone who dares cross your street. counters slow speeds compared to conventional weapons while still smacking just as hard and easier as you can aim more precise.

@Pangolin_Fan

The situations you talk about are all perfect scenarios, which means XM800T would have to get to a position overlooking enemy’s movement paths, with no trees/bushes/buildings/fences, and you need to get there without dying, and even then, you have to avoid getting LRF sniped by an HE or HEATFS whilst your missile is traveling.

this is map dependant of course but almost always very easy to do.

I played a lot of the fix before it got gimped in its turret rotation (its still going up despite this for some reason) and even though it cant turn good you get to those early power spots before the enemy team can even think of considering them. There is always an XM800t right beside me too when I’m on the same team as one played by a non-braindead player. on more open maps yes you’re going to be sniped by the no life greasy player of a pzh2000 across the map as they play one handed, an OP undertiered tank outlier isn’t the situation for everything else around though, nor are the pzh2000s as frequent now the dust has settled and there’s a russian peer at a even lower BR.

@Pangolin_Fan

Alot of maps don’t have reasonable spots that meet all these requirements.

Theres always a good improvised position. that’s the great thing about WT, any spot on a map can be the clutch position in the match, for example I’ve clutched a match on middle east left side of delta 4 in the tortoise by holding off the entire enemy team long enough to get enough score for a nuke even though I had no business countering flanks like that in such a vehicle.

@Pangolin_Fan

It’s hard to compare the XM800T to other tanks to gauge how well it would perform because all the tanks I can think of that are similar are bad.

take best closest comparison, scale by how much better you think it will be.
M901 is 8.3, this thing can fire instantly after stopping instead of the stupid Wall-E turret, far faster and much smaller. 9.3 I think would be fitting scaling off the M901

@Pangolin_Fan

Turm III has no LRF. I was thinking of the wrong tank

still a good example of a vehicle that can shred an XM800 because its got a great gun, great mobility and that annoying asf coaxial autocanon that obliterated even mediums.

[Pangolin_Fan]

I guess not having to deploy the launcher is a pretty good reason for it being higher, especially if it is stabilized.

[Caernarvon02]

fire then move off is usually pretty trash as I’ve tried it with the Ratel Ingwe. the pure mobility is what makes the idea of an XM800T (TOW) horrifying anywhere below 9.3

[Константинович7]

XM-800T Twin TOW Launcher is a proposal only from what I know which means the vehicle itself was never capable of firing the missiles,

I may be wrong and I hope so because would be a great addition with the T95E4, the hydropneumatic suspension control could add a lot to the way to play US tanks and honestly is lacking a lot in the battle rating 8.7 sector,

To add I wish it was also the XM551 Test Bed, my personal favorite. The vehicle itself is so poorly documented it was only mentioned one time in the Sheridan: A History of the American Light Tank, Volume 2 by R. P. Hunnicutt:

Some believes it’s actually a T49, the improved version of the M41 using a test turret for the M551 Sheridan but it was never mentioned in the book from what I know.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Yeah I’m 99% sure that’s a T49.

[Константинович7]

I can’t refuse since the two pictures made in the Aberdeen Proving Grounds made from the T49 Light Tank and this test bed had the chassis identical.

I’ll look for more sources and rework the entire suggestion post. R. P. Hunnicutt could cover more details about.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Personally, i’d prefer a starship T95 anyways since it gets the same gun but with LRF.

[Константинович7]

M60A2 has a laser rangefinder, the M551 Sheridan with similar gun doesn’t.

[ThiccoIai]

Why would it be 9.0+ when its just a smaller bradley with no autocannon? Maybe if it had tow-2 but I’m pretty sure it’s way too early for that. Also it likely doesnt have any ammo storage at all like the in game XM800

[Caernarvon02]

The raw mobility of the XM800T platform is incredible, It keeps up with the fox which is probably the fastest overall vehicle in game.

I have a AMSAA report from a field test of the XM800T (without a turret) and it was rapid so I can tell you the TOW version even with tiny ammo capacity (it will get the ammo crate too) will be very very destructive just from getting into position the fastest

[HondaCivici]

Would really love to see the M5 but I see this being more of a consumable (similar to scout drones) than researchable tanks in the TT.

I do feel like unmanned vehicles should have a place in warthunder. Being able to control more than one vehicle at once really adds an additional layer of complexity.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Personally, I’d prefer it be an actual tank that help builds a BR, than be a glorified scout drone.