Im playing with my German 9.3 Lineup and and wanted to know which could be a nice addition for germany 9.3 Spaa into the game? since Germany goes from 8.7 to 9.7
i know i could use Ozelot but since its 9.7 it opens me to full uptiers agaisnt 10.7 ground/air on 9.3 vehicles.
The Ozelot should be 9.3, as other nations also have a 9.3 Manpad-Launcher at 9.3.
Some even with Stingers.
A possible addition would be the Strela-1, since the GDR used them, but Gaijin seems to be very reluctant when it comes to GDR ground units, so it might never come. Same as with all the other missing GDR-vehicles.
Most of them don’t have IRST, which is a huge advantage. Things like the Machbet are worse and at 9.3 for a reason, given it lacks any tracking capabilities and can only carry 4 stingers with no ability to carry them in the hull.
Not that IRST is useful for locking the Stingers. (Because it is not; I can have a heli locked with IRST at 2km but the stinger wont do shit)
Also the Machbet has a 20mm, the Ozelot has only Stingers
The S part is more useful than you think, (Infrared Search and Track). Having a search system that spots targets is extremely helpful, and it’s a passive one at that (so the enemy won’t know they being detected like with Radars an RWRs). The Machbet only has an IRT system, meaning you have to rely on the good ol’ Mk.1 eyeball for target acquisition.
The Machbet may have a 20mm Vulcan, but if anything it hardly makes up for its low amount of stingers given the lack of stabilization, the decently low velocity, and the poor range.
The S part is only useful until someone launches a drone.
Then it gets cluttered, your automatic lock always locks a drone in the opposite direction you are looking in, forcing you to IRST lock via the scope.
And what use does awareness have if you cannot shoot back.
Oh look a heli 3km away, clearly in my 6km all aspect lock range. Guess what: Cannot do shit about it. No Stinger-lock, no guns to shoot it, it sees me and I am dead. Nothing I can do.
And the Ozelot also misses its optical-tracking.
The Ozelot is more comparable to a Type 93.
Also the Gepard is the same BR and they are not equivalent, as the Gepard has two 35mm and a working radar.
This is the exact same case with any Radar SPAA if I’m not mistaken (it’s even worse for managing radars in top tier Air RB on the jets, as you’re a moving radar and need to select one of many different targets).
A problem with literally every IR same ingame unfortunately (except Photo contrast SAMs like the Strela-10M2 and Type-81C). Helis (and the F-5 aircraft lmao) really should be giving off more heat. The seekers on these SAMs may not be as good as the optical locks, as you’ll notice with locking and firing upon normal aircraft, but it should be much better against helicopters in particular compared to what it currently is ingame. Hopefully they fix it (as well as the F-5 series reheat, since that thing can literally one flare an R-73 in .5km rear aspect… I’m not even joking…)
Perhaps it is, however the Type 93 doesn’t have IRST, only IRT. There is a case to be made for the fact it has photo contrast locking though, giving it superior flare rejection (literally unflareable, and only ground clutter can make photocontrast loose lock, not even the thickest of clouds does anything). However there is still the fact that the Type 93’s missiles have 3 less G’s of maximum pull, making it less effective compared to the FIM-92K on the Ozelot. On top of that, the Ozelot also has smoke grenades, which may save you from a heli or guided bomb every once in a while depending on how aware and alert you are of airborne aircraft.
The Gepard doesn’t have passive tracking or locking. Any plane with a RWR and the correct bands of detection will get a RWR spike when pinged, and an alert when locked. Its practically impossible for a airborne target to know if there’s an Ozelot, meanwhile any plane with a RWR will know there’s a Gepard or enemy SPAA with a radar system up when either spiked or locked by it (since friendly radars no longer spike RWRs, it’s by default that you can determine it as an enemy SPAA or aircraft). The Gepard, similar to the ZSU-23-4M4 and Machbet, only has 4 MANPADS, which makes it less of a missile SPAA. the Upgraded Shilka also has worse guns (in terms of velocity) and missiles (in terms of G-pull), just mentioning that before you bring it up lol.
Edit: I would like to add, that do believe the Ozelot can go to 9.3, however it would need to lose the FIM-92K and remain with only the E variant for that to happen. Its easily one of, if not THE strongest 9.7 missile SPAA ingame by far, only rivaled by the French Roland.
SPAA Radars do not pick up, nor can they lock scout drones (although they should be able to)
Funny thing, the Stingers should have around 20G, not the current 13. There is a whole post about it. And Gaijin is kinda not very clear if the shown pull is the average or the max or something else.
Another funny thing: The overload of the Stingers is only so wrong, because they look similar to the Iglas (Gaijins own words; they do not understand)
And an aircraft that is aware its being shot at (not hard to see, since a big smoke lines comes creeping up to you) can easily outpull a stinger. Or simply stay out of range (~5km; easy with guided munitions).
Removing the proxy-fuse Stinger would only render the thing useless, even on 9.3.
The Ozelot can stay at 9.7 if, and only if:
It gets its Datalink
It gets its missing MG3
The Stingers are reworked into the correct Overload
If those things aren’t done, the Ozelot should be moved to 9.3.
Yes, but it can pick up ally missiles, rockets, and AGMs, which are confusing sometimes. I was mainly referring to the fact you’ll find your Radar/IRST screen cluttered. I’ve personally had better luck locking UAVs with radars over IRT, as I usually need a within 1km lock with IRT to track it, otherwise I’ll be unable to gain a lock. However with Radar it usually ain’t that hard, I don’t believe I’ve ever had an issue with it before, but I haven’t used Radar SPAA with radar tracking before, as the Roland hardly faces UAVs and the ADATS has optical tracking.
Oh I know about it lol. The whole “but muh Russian manpads can’t do that so why could these?” Lmfao…
Interesting, by datalink do you mean the ability to have LOAL? That would definitely be an upgrade…
What exactly is the MG3 you speak of? I’ve never heard of it personally.
If I were to play the Ozelot, I’d simply wait for the aircraft to be within range, and the enemy would have no way of knowing if my presence given the passive track/lock system. That’s usually how I’m killed by it myself, as I don’t expect it until it’s already on its way and by the time I’ve noticed it I don’t have time to out-pull it. Other times when they fired while I was far away and noticed it, I had no trouble dodging/flaring it, and then singly taking him out given he revealed his presence/location.
yep
MG3, the classic german machine gun
Oh lmao, that would be kinda nice ig, maybe for removing obstacles and obstructions at least.
That would be quite terrifying… don’t know if 9.7 wouldn’t be low enough for it anymore at that point haha… ha…
The fennek is a great option for 9.3 as its literally equal to the type 93.
lso this thing but needs to be trailer mounted
BGT Aim-9 SHORAD
for exactly that lol.
and maybe knife distance helicopters
well ig countries better be glad the ozelots brother aint in game
this guy enables it iirc
If there are ANY clouds, photocontrast locking stops working:
UAZ-469 FASTA-4M
A unique East German creation. Four missiles ready and I think another four in reserve. Could fit at 9.0.
Not once the missile is in the air. I’ve been tracked through the thickest of clouds while testing with a friend. Then again I did test with a fixed wing, and not a heli. (And was also testing with the Strela-10M2, which has a significantly small seeker FOV and tends to gain and hold photocontrast locks better then others)
Yes, once it’s in the air it seems to work fine (maybe the IR seeker takes over? i’d need to go into replay sensor view myself to know for sure) but actually getting a lock for launch is extremely difficult if there are clouds.
It’s very iffy lol, I don’t think I’ll ever understand how gaijin got this to work, and I highly doubt it’s supposed to be as effective as it is…
In theory at least, the Type 91 and 81 SAMs are supposed to be a lot better than they are now, clouds shouldn’t impact them this much. But even when you can clearly see the enemy aircraft, they’re just unable to do it.
It’s the same if a helicopter is hovering very close to the ground too, EVEN if they have clear sky between them and the ground it’ll fail to lock and you can’t launch.
Ong Gaijin where’s my dam T-54/55s
