its wrong below 450 too
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Maybe so.
The issue is I won’t say anything about that because the anti-FOD device is normally closed and the source does not say whether it’s open or closed for that thrust curve.
Without more information, I won’t be secure in a conclusion for low speed.
Don’t know how you can interpret that but ok 👍
Because you commented after HighRisk and I thought you were him
name a 4th gen at 12.7 or higher (or lower, i dont care) that doesnt beat a mig-29 in a turnfight.
F18, F14, F16, F15 - quite frankly there is not a single US jet at that BR range that doesnt outturn it (except maybe the harrier lmao)
have you even read the original message you replied to?
IRL the testfights between the 29G and F16C show that the 29 outturns and outaccelerates the F16C - in warthunder it does neither.
Maybe it outaccelerates the ADF, but the turning part is even less close then on the F16s
this is only true for the F16A and ADF, the C has essentially the same time to speeds as the MiG29.
and even the ADF outaccelerates it when both aircraft maneuver at all, wich would happen quite often in fights
you are starting to argue game balance, and not real life performance.
irl the 29G (a MiG29 model with less thrust than the original) outturned and outaccelerated the F16C, in warthunder it can do neither of those.
The flight model is not accurate - idgaf if its “balanced” (if you call abysmal K/Ds and ingame performance as balanced)
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its obviously open
the anti-FOD device (ADV29) in warthunder is modelled completly wrong.
Irl there are INSANELY thight restrictions on the ramps to reduce the risks of engine stalls - wich could lead to permanent damage to the engines.
as written on page 38 of the 29G manual - the intakes only close below ~200km/h (108kn) and ONLY when the gear is deployed
These thrust charts represent the maximum possible thrust under standard atmospheric pressure and with all general intake losses accounted for - but its not a takeoff thrust chart.
Edit: if I havent made completly clear why this is wrong - in Warthunder its possible to close the ADV-29 system midflight during a stall, wich under the handbook given conditions should be impossible. additionally the ADV-29 doesnt affect the 29s thrust at all in warthunder, as gaijin doesnt model such complicated systems with attention to detail
The thrust ingame is the LPM thrust, while the graph ive shown you is the NPM thrust (found on page 19)
the 29G always operated under LPM (wich result in a dynamic thrust of ~6700kgf when accounting for intake losses - matching up with the ingame thrust of 6820kgf)
in NPM the thrust given by the engines shoudl be somewhere in the 7500-7800kgf area on all airframes (except the 29G) if you account for the general intake losses that the RD-33 would experience in the 29 engine mount
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You just named 2 of them right there yourself… If you don’t have experience with US jets, take a look on the statshark turn performance graphs of The F-14 or F-18 vs the mig-29.
We’re talking about in-game performance here. IRL tests have no bearing on this discussion since warthunder isn’t real life or very realistic at all… At most is a simcade game.
Yes. Like I said, they have different strenghts and weaknesses. Point is both are good 12.7s
The C isn’t 12.7 is it?
All I do is argue game balance, highly relevant to the topic and your comment too since you were complaining and exaggerating about the Mig-29 being such a bad FM in-game. I’m arguing that it’s not the case at all.
I don’t have a problem in buffing the mig-29 in whichever way makes it more realistic, if that’s the case. As long as it gets properly balanced afterwards. I fly the mig-29 too, but I’m not in favour of making game balance worse for others.
But I don’t view balance or performance by looking at average player results. I talk about my own experience which will probably be different from your average player.
Balancing by statistics is what makes many vehicles in TT like france or italy over BR’d
Fa18 is definitely better than mig 29 in a dogfight, but overall flight model id rather be in the 29, 18 too slow
Alright, back to the more fun topic.
If that document is unrestricted and true, I appreciate the knowledge.
My own English documents haven’t supplied that for me.
Could I get the document name itself?
statshark is overestimating the Mig-29
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I’m aware of statshark not being 100% correct for everything, but the mig-29 still outrates the F-18, and almost matches the F-14 while doing tighter circles and having better 1C and vertical performance overall.
I don’t personally “test” FM with statshark, I only talk about my own ingame testing with WTRTI. But not everyone has access to every FM in game.
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I haven’t dueled with proper players to make my conclusion to which is overall better in a dogfight. All I know is that the mig-29 has better unsustained energy retention and sustained turn rate, while the F-18 has better nose authority for 1C at slow speeds.
The F-18 will be agressive and might have a gun solution early but if you are on the mig-29 you can bait it into it and try to mitigate being sniped and then force the rate fight since the F-18 will be slow AF.
The F-18 can’t run away if he starts losing positioning, the mig-29 absolutely can. Like you said, I’d also rather be on the mig29 too for that reason
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it does not statshark overestimates the Mig-29 by around 2° per second STR
so if it looks close on statshark the F-14 will win the rate fight without problems in the game
and statshark shows that the mig-29 has a STR of around 1.5° higher than the F-18 which means that they have around the same rate if we consider that statshark is overestimating the Mig by around 2°
then there are the jets that are able to outrate the mig-29 even if we dont consider that statshark is overestimating the mig-29
ontop of that the F-18 can easily win against the Mig-29 by not ratefighting but by one circle fighting
(i know it is really suprising that a jet desidned for the 1c is not a great rate fighter)
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I’ll also answer this one:
F-15E, Mirage 4000, Su-34, Su-30SM… okay good your post did use turnfight and not one circle.
The ones I know off the top of my head.
Any more nuanced things would require testing.
I suspect F-14A may get beaten.
F-14B didn’t the last time I dogfought Mig-29.
I am curious about F-16C Block 40 vs Mig-29.
if you turn away in the mig you will eat a missile, congratulations
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its the 29G flight manual, unrestricted and unclassified since the early 2000s
widely available online too
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Not really u less you’re talking about top tier fa18, the 12.7 ones only get sparrows and 9ls which are easily defeated
all of them have ways to defeat the Mig-29 in a dogfight
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not if you run away
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Eat what? A flare hungry aim-9L? An unreliable aim-7F from rear aspect which is also easily multipathed?
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