Sho’'t go up? Give them new engine - they are unplayable on 8.7 now Dalet go 9.0 becouse I era thermals (~1980 israel have american thermals…) Strv 103 go up too… Better split game IIWW/1945-70/+1970
Yes 100%. Gaijin please nerf xp50 and busted 10.0 strike aircraft with all aspect 30G missiles that are the most meta air superiority fighters please.
To the best of my knowledge, the A10 has never shot down an enemy fighter in real combat, and yet in war thunder, the A10 is one of the most meta air supremecy fighters with missiles undodgeable by more than half the planes it faces.
Theres no reason ground attack aircraft like the A10, A6e, or Su25 should be allowed at such a low BR where they’re the most meta air supremecy fighters because most of the other planes dont have flares.
5 Likes
As opposed to in BR’s where they have literally 0 chance to survive? Also who cares about IRL performance this is a video game. A-10s are mega trash even in ground most people know this they are fine where they currently are. Maybe if gaijin added a separation between air and ground brs this discussion would be more fruitful but for now its fine.
In regards to RB then most of these changes i would say are pretty good, but there are some of the changes that does not make sense.
Centurion Mk 3 Generally the Centurions that are using the 20pdr are pretty well balanced at their current BR, even in regards to fighting WW2 tanks.
Chieftain Mk 3 Should not go up in BR , because as it is currently is implemented it is struggling to do anything against the things that it is fighting. It is slow than most other tanks and it armor does not hold up well against most of the tanks it faces.
Ozelot & Type 93 Should not go up in BR, they only affect the enemy planes which is staying at their current BR, they cannot engage enemy armor and if they meet any, their only options are either to hide if they can or run away. If they go up the Strela-10M2 should also get an increase to its BR.
Cheiftain Marksman, Type 87 & Gepard Should not get a BR increase, at least without a BR increase to also the ZSU-23-4, PGZ09 & ItPsV 90.
IS-3 Is not on the list but should also go up in BR like the IS-6, since a lot of the tanks that it faces currently have no chance to deal with it. They generally also have very similar playstyle & strenghts/weakness, and are more or less equal to each other.
Type 69-IIa Together with the Type 69 could both go to 8.7 no problem. Compared to those that are the same BR or even higher than them, then they have both good HEAT-FS, Stabilizer & LRF, where the other vehicles mostly only have one or maybe two of those things.
ZTZ59D1 Should also have a BR increase, since compared to the competion at the same BR in the game currently, it already have more stuff then they have, where it has both LRF, Stabilizer & Thermals. In regards to what it would look like with the changes, it would have the same BR as the T-62, which only have Stabilizer, and at the same time it also have better APFSDS.
T-55AM-1 Could go up a BR braket further, at its current place ingame, it is a domineering tank, and with it more or less staying in the same place because everything moves up, and it gets a RoF increase, it will be even more powerful.
Object 279 Is not mention, but should get a BR increase, since in a downtier, it is impossible to kill as it currently, is. By increasing everying around it, and not moving it, it will be like that it is always in a downtier, and therfore always dominating,
Shturm-S Currently it is has very powerful SACLOS ATGM, where it is even more powerful in the role of a semi-SPAA.
To summarize in more itemized list of the BR that i think stuff should have, it is as follows.
- Centurion Mk 3 & other 20pdr Centurions Stay at 7.3
- Chieftain Mk 3 Stay at 8.3
- Ozelot Stay at 9.3
- Type 93 Stay at 9.0
- Chieftain Marksman Stay at 8.0
- Gepard Stay at 8.0
- Type 87 Stay at 8.0
-
- Otherwise if those 3 SPAA gets a BR increase, then the BR of the ZSU-23-4 sould be increased to 8.3 & increase the BR of the PGZ09 & ItPsV 90 to 8.7
- IS-3 Increase to 7.3
- Type 69 Increase to 8.7
- Type 69-IIa Increase to 8.7
- ZTZ59D1 Increase to 9.0
- T-55AM-1 Increase to 9.0
- Object 279 Increase to 9.0
- Shturm-s Increase to 9.0
1 Like
Super AMX-30 and AMX-32 105 could really get a better APFSDS shell if they’re going to be facing Abrams, Leopard 2A4s and T-80Bs again. Just to be on par with those who have DM33.
T32 and T32E1 could both use a BR reduction, they are weak for their BRs.
The Centurion Mk.2 could go up a BR step.
The T25 should really go down in BR. It has no business being that high in BR, it’s a worse Pershing.
T29 perhaps could stay at 7.0, but I can see why it’s going up. However, if the T29 goes up then so should the Tiger II 105.
The BMP-2M should go up to 10.7 minimum. It has NO business being the same BR as the Dardo or the M3A3 Bradley.
The T95E1 should remain 8.0.
And the BR ceiling of Ground RB should be increased to 12.0, to be on par with aircraft.
Also, in Air RB I think it’s about time the F-104s move back up to 9.7 or 10.0. Same with MiG-19s and the Lightning. At the same time, A-10s, Su-25s and the A-6 should go up in BR drastically.
Furthermore, move the F-5C and the F-5E both up a BR bracket. They’re stupidly good and way too forgiving.
2 Likes
All commentary is regarding Realistic Battles.
First of all, I think the separation of late WWII and early Cold War tanks is a very good move. It directly addresses one of the BR ranges that was most severely affected by compression. However. This essentially undoes the work of the April 2023 Battle Rating Changes, which separated the then-9.7+ vehicles from the current 8.7 vehicles. Since almost all of these current 8.7/9.0/9.3 vehicles are moving back up, the benefits from the April changes are basically nullified. If these changes are to go into effect, all vehicles above 8.7 should also be moved up in BR.
Planned Changes
- T29
- 7.0 → 7.3
- I don’t like this change. Its performance is still closer to the T34 heavy tank than post-war heavy tanks.
- T95E1
- 8.0 → 8.3
- The gun is very unreliable, and the tank’s lack of a stabilizer is very detrimental. Its performance is roughly on-par with an unstabilized M60 (e.g. M60A1 Ariete) and should not go up.
Suggested Changes
- Strv 81 (RB 52) (UK)
- 7.3 → 7.7
- In accordance with the rest of the Centurion Mk 3
- CM11
- 9.0 → 9.3
- It is a clear superior to the Chinese M60A3 TTS, it should not be left at the same BR.
- T-64A
- 9.0 → 9.3
- It is too powerful to face the new 8.0 and 8.3, it would be unreasonable to face it in a T-54 or M60.
- 2S38
- 10.0 → 10.3
- It’s still superior to most 10.0 tanks due to its combination of high mobility and fast rate of fire.
- Object 685
- Move before BMP-3 in the research order
- Its BR will now be below the BMP-3
- 9P149 Shturm-S
- 8.3 → 9.0
- The missiles are already very powerful at 8.3, they should definitely move up in BR as well.
- IT-1
- 8.3 → 8.7
- Ditto.
- AFT09
- 8.7 → 9.0
- Ditto with above. Such powerful missiles should not be facing early T-54 or M60 tanks.
- DF 105
- Move to the light tank line after the Marder 1 A3
- Its functionality is as a light tank, which is relatively different from the tank destroyers that it is between.
- SdKfz 222
- Reclassify as light tank
- Despite being functionally identical to a vehicle like SdKfz 234/1, it has a cheaper spawn cost on account of its in-game role. It’s been previously established that tanks in-game are classified by their in-game function, and this would be a perfect example of a change that needs to be made.
- T28
- 6.3 → 6.7
- It is weaker than the T95, but it does not deserve to face 5.3 and 5.7 tanks on a regular basis. Even with weaker side armor, it is still very resistant to damage from such aspects.
- Jagdpanther, Bfw. Jagdpanther
- 6.0 → 6.3
- It has very powerful front armor and is impervious to basically all 5.0 and 5.3 tanks, except those with 122mm guns. It is a stronger vehicle than the SU-100.
- Pz. IV F2
- 3.3 → 3.7
- The firepower is overkill for its BR. While its armor is suboptimal, the mobility and fire controls remain fairly strong for its tier. There is no need for 2.3 tanks to face a long 75 on a stable platform.
- Pz. IV G
- 3.3 → 4.0
- Ditto. It also comes with improved armor, which makes it even more difficult to fight for most 2.3 and 2.7 tanks, which cannot pen 80mm of armor and especially with add-on tracks.
- Pz. IV H
- 3.7 → 4.3
- Like above. With the add-on armor, the frontal protection is very challenging to defeat by contemporary medium tanks. The armor is at least equivalent to the M4A2 Sherman, while the firepower is superior.
- Pz. IV J, Pz.Bfw. IV J, Pz. IV G (Italy)
- 3.7 → 4.0
- Ditto with Pz. IV G
- T-44
- 6.7 → 6.3
- It is not competitive at this BR, even if the current 7.7 tanks move up. It is not capable of facing contemporary tanks at 6.7-7.0 on equal footing.
8 Likes
Please don’t increase the T29’s Battle Rating… Its already over-tiered…
1 Like
Lmao
who came up with these changes really? bruh
In addition to my (very positive) earlier reaction, after some researching there seem to be some vehicles that are overlooked (probably also already mentioned by someone else):
M60A1 RISE (P), now same BR as M60A1 AOS while having ERA and APFSDS over it
M60A3, Chinese variant is moving up to 9.0 but not this one
FV4202, should probably move to 7.3? It’s not that much worse compared to Centurion Mk 3
T-55AMD-1, should probably move to 8.3 with the T-55AM-1? It’s fairly comparable.
Type 69, same BR as Type 59 seems wrong? It has LR, faster turret and better kinetic shells over it
AMX-32, same BR as AMX-32 105
Sho’t Kal Alef, same BR as Centurion Mk 10 while having higher speed and better ammo selection
Magach 5, same BR as many other Magachs while having much better (APFSDS) shells over them
Also, AMX-30B2 should probably remain at 8.3 as the BRENUS is an upgrade of it and this should be reflected in BR.
T29 to 7.3 seems harsh to me, as al other heavy tanks remain at their current BR.
Apart from that, BR 7 - 9 looks way more balanced to me. Although 8.0 - 8.3 seems still highly compressed (particularly visible at the T-54/T-55 and derivatives, with quite large performance gaps between them, especially the Chinese ones)
2 Likes
I believe the T95E1 would sit just find were it is at right now. As it already gets out reloaded and faces tanks with STABS and since it is not the T95E4/6 with a stabilized gun and composite armor it would make sense if it stays where it is. If the T95E4/6 ever gets added it could go great at 8.3
1 Like
How is 12.7/13.7 insane? It can easily be done.
1 Like
That’s exactly what I said, changing the BR in a hasty way and without taking anything into account causes absurd imbalances, and all for doing things quickly instead of doing it well and balancing all the vehicles according to their performance.
It seems to me that this is going to be another modification of the game that the gaijin is going to have to postpone until it is corrected, because it is too badly done and as they implement it they are going to take a mountain of criticism. The truth is that I do not understand it, with how easy it is to do things right.
I am a ussr main and the is6 against heatfs/apds can’t compete so at 7.3 will be usless and thet54 1949 at 8.0 is just ridiculus, no apds or heatfs no stabilizer no laser range and an armour who as the is6 is ineffecfive against apds or heatfs. And the leo 1 tooat 8.0 is crazy, sure it has good ammo but the armour is terrible. And the btr make no sense at 7.3 is not even stabilized tf are you doing gaijin!?!?
I won’t say anything about the IS-6, but the T54 1949 already has APDS and will receive HEAT-FS. Regarding the Leopard 1, I already said it before, you have to take advantage of its speed to reach good points on the map. Regarding the BTR It is more of the same, you are going to find practically the same against it, and it will even be better, it is better to find a Leopard 1 than a Tiger 2 carrying the BTR.
If we are changing BR’s and buffing existing tank capabilities and ammo, let me propose this feedback once again because it is a needed change:
For the US
-M60A3 TTS needs M833
All other M60’s and MBT’s at the same BR get DM63 or DM33. This is blatantly unfair. Some of these vehicles not only have vastly better ammo, but they are better armored and have better engines like the Olifant mk.2
-XM8 needs M833
it’s a later iteration of the CCVL which already gets M833. It only makes sense to give the more mature design (that being the XM8) the same ammo its older predecessor had.
-AGS needs M833
It was part of the same program as the XM8 and CCVL, it would utilize the same ammo as them.
-XM1 (C) and (GM) need M774
as that was the round in service at the time of their creation and they would have used it. Also unify their BR’s to be the same, they are functionally the same vehicle yet the (C) model has a lower BR than the (GM) in realistic battles.
-M1 Abrams and M1 KVT need M833. this will bring them closer to parity with their opposition and help them become more competent in the common scenario where they are up-tiered against stronger vehicles.
Additional arguments
M833 only has a 23mm difference in pen compared to M774 which is not asking for a lot, it wouldn’t break the balance of the game.
M774 has 372mm pen at best.
M833 has 395mm pen at best.
It would just help these vehicles contend with the opposition which gets far superior ammo like DM33, DM63, 3BM22, 3BM42 all of which pen 408mm of armor or well beyond it.
Again this would help these vehicles contend with common up-tiers without being too overpowered against lower tiered vehicles.
Ammo available to other nations within the same 9.0-10.3 BR range is as follows
OFL 120 G1--------394mm of pen (France at 9.3+)
L23A1----------------396mm of pen (UK at 10.0)
Type 93-------------405mm of pen (japan at 8.7+)
105mm DM33—408mm of pen (Germany, Italy, UK, Sweden at 8.7/9.0+)
Shot L23------------410mm of pen (UK at 9.0+)
120mm DM23—410mm of pen (Germany, Sweden at 10.3)
3BM22--------------425mm of pen (Russia, Sweden at 9.0/9.3)
105mm DM63—430mm of pen (Germany, UK, Sweden, China, Israel at 9.0+)
3BM42--------------457mm of pen (Russia at 9.7)
L26--------------------471mm of pen (UK at 10.3)
120mm DM33—481mm of pen (Italy at 10.0)
DTW2-105---------491mm of pen (China at 9.3)
3BM46---------------532mm of pen (Russia at 10.0)
All of these rounds are either on par with or far exceed the capabilities of M833. It is not unfair at all to give this ammo to 9.0+ US tanks.
Now lets look at the US ammo for the same BR range and what vehicles have what.
M735- 353mm of pen (XM1 C and GM)
M774- 372mm of pen (M60A3, M1128, M1128 WP, AGS, M1, M1 KVT)
M833- 395mm of pen (CCVL, M1128 WP)
M900- 522mm of pen (M1128) (soon to be added to the M1128 Wolf Pack Premium)
Final bit
The IPM1 and the M1A1 are only .3 BR higher than the M1 and M1KVT and they get M900 and M829A1 that is a pen range of 522mm-598mm not to mention their armor protection is increased, so clearly ammo is not much of a problem when such powerful rounds only cause a .3 BR increase.
If all of this somehow doesn’t convince you there is a problem, I don’t know what will.
5 Likes
If we look at Ground Below 7.0 & Planes, then the following changes i would say are needed.
First planes:
Me 262 A-1a Is currently the worst jet at 7.0 by a longshot, while it can be quite fast, it is nearly impossible to hit something with its cannons and it will very easily get either outmanuvered by any other plane of equal BR. Therefore its BR should get decreased.
Pe-8 In combination of its bombload and defensive weapons, its BR is far too low.
XP-50 Currently it is very domineering at its current BR, therfore it could get a BR increase to make it fight planes that are more equal to its performance.
Stirling B MK III It is very slow and fragile, and in comparison to the Mark I, the differences does not justify a BR difference of 0.7.
Lancasters Both of those planes are very slow and fragile, while both have good bomb load, they are very inadequately armed in regards to defensive weapons.
Canberra Both of them should have their BR decreased, since they are currently a massive flying target with no way to defend themselves. While the Mk 6 have cannons, they are nearly useless since the plane is so slow and massive, while at the same time not able to turn fast at higher speeds because the wings will rip.
Spitfire Mk 22 & 24 Their BR is quite a bit higher in comparison to other prop that currently is ingame. While they are probably doing very well currently, it is mostly because they faces early jets, and are able to outperform them in a turnfight.
Vampire FB 5 Currently it is nearly usless at its BR, while it will outturn everything it fights, its is not enough to fight the things it currently are engaging. Even if it scores a hit on a target, it does nearly no damage, since it is using the Hispano cannons.
Venom FB.4 Same situation as the Vampire FB 5.
Hunter F.1 As it curretly stands, it is obsolete in the game, since it will be fighting jets that goes mach speed and are firing missiles, while it being only a subsonic jet with only guns.
B-239 Its current BR performance is extreme, in regards to turn time, climb speed & Armerments. Therefore it should get its br increased.
SK60B, SAAB-105G & SAAB-105OE, After they got custom loadouts, in combination of how nimble they are, they really can be dominating, especially in GRB.
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Now in regards to tanks:
KV-1B & KV-1E Should not be at the BR they currently are at, they are nearly impossible to kill, and in it not unusual to see them get games where they have 10 kills and 0 deaths.
Kugelblitz It currently does not have a lineup, and in regards to its performance, it does not really make af difference if it was 6.7 or 7.0, other that it being able to be used in a lineup or not.
SU-122 Things thing should have been increased in BR at the same time the M4A3 (105) was increased in BR. It is the combination of its mobility, firepower & Armor that is really a problem. For tanks that is below it, there is very few tanks that can even go through the front of it, or even go through the side of it, even at those that are at or above its BR, will have a hard time going through it. At the same time, it have enough mobility to always being able to keep the front towards its enemy & even being able to keep up with the light tanks.
2S3M Probably the best modern SPH in the game currently, but at the same time, it is also the lowest tiered of the modern SPH.
Churchill VII It is more or less useless at it current BR, while it have a lot of armor, its gun cannot do any damage, because first you need to penetrate the armor of the enemy tank, which it cannot do. Even if you do, it is solid shot, so it does no damage. At the same time it is very slow, and its armor have a lot of weakpoints.
G6 Rhino Its performance is not so much better that it justifies that its BR is that much higher that other modern SPH.
To make it more obvious of my BR suggestions, they are as follows:
- Me 262 A-1a Decrease BR to 6.7
- XP-50 Increase BR to either 4.3 or 4.7
- Pe-8 Increase BR to 5.0
- Stirling Mk III Decrease BR to 4.3
- Lancaster B Mk I Decrease BR to 5.0
- Lancaster B Mk III Decrease BR to 5.0
- Lancaster MR.7 Decrease BR to 5.0
- Canberra Mk 2 Decrease BR to 8.0
- Canberra (l) Mk 6 Decrease BR to 8.0
- Spitfire Mk 22 Decrease BR to 6.3
- Spitfire Mk 24 Decrease Br to 6.7
- Vampire FB 5 Decrease BR to 7.7
- Venom FB.4 Decrease BR to 8.3
- Hunter f.1 Decrease BR to 8.7
- B-239 Increase BR to 2.7 or 3.0
- SK60B Increase BR to 7.7
- SAAB-105G Increase BR to 8.7
- SAAB-105OE Increase BR to 8.7
- KV-1B Increase BR to 4.3, maybe even 4.7
- KV-1E Increase BR to 4.3, maybe even 4.7
- Kugelblitz Decrease BR to 6.7
- SU-122 Increase BR to 2.7, maybe even 3.0
- 2S3M Increase BR to 6.7
- Churchill VII Decrease BR to 4.3
- G6 Rhino Decrease BR to 6.7
8 Likes
so the AMX-32 (105) will move to 9.3 but the AMX-32 will stay at 9.3?
the AMX-32 is a straight up upgrade to the AMX-32 (105) and having both stay at the same BR is puzzling.
it’s like the BRENUS and B2 all over again.
Also, can we put countermeasures on the french f-8e please? the american one got countermeasures and chucking it down to 10.0 will solve nothing.
and, why does the french f-100d not have aim9e while the american one gets it? they sit at the same BR.
1 Like
Do you really want a tank with 80mm of penetration to face Tiger H1s, M4A2 (76)Ws, M4A3E2s and even Tiger Es, Panther As, Panther Gs, M4A3 (76)Ws?
KV-1E has good armor, but that’s it. It has miserable firepower first found at 3.3 which is extremely lacking in uptiers 4.7 and let alone 5.0 uptiers already.
KV-1E is a tank that is as difficult to kill, as it is to kill with it. Uptier it, and you will have a tank that can’t kill anything, yet its armor advantage is negated.
KV-1B’s situation is different though, since most of the guns that can pen it with ease are on its team.
2 Likes