Yeah …
The numbers do not support your view.
The difference with the Taran is minimal, and both are TT vehicles from highly popular nations, meaning there is likely no big difference in the skill level of the player population using them.
Let’s look at other 6.3 tech tree mediums (no premiums as mid tier premiums tend to have more experienced players picking them up):
All in all, it is doing fine.
Tis-ma, yak9k, su25k, obj416, 2s38, t80ud, not one fo this go up, lol, this is insane.
3 Likes
It’s straight up better than the Panther A due to the stabilizer.
Yet another case of a player wanting to move a tank down dur to their personal struggles.
the one with higher RP per game as per gaijin logic.
sole reason for its high br is it has access to 6 incendiary bombs
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Fair but some changes are so absurd that they need to be pointed out now. A10C for example.
and A5C, MIG23M
and J7D staying where it is
4 Likes
These are honestly the worst BR changes you have ever proposed. PLEASE dont go through with this garbage. You are going to completely kill CAS with this. You have made CASS very unfun with the free SPAA, freebackup, increased spawn cost and adding Pansir SM. If you really hate CAS so much just remove it from ground RB.
1 Like
this is why gaijin is hesitant to listen to the community…
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Again, the Fv4030 is 10 years too old to be equipped with L23A1.
IT should have L15A5, with it CORRECTLY MODELED WITH AROUND 360MM OF PEN.
IT also shouldn’t have a Laser Range finder.
by does the a-6e tram get 11.7 this is way to high, maybe move it to 11.3 or something but 11.7 is way to high, the su-39 is only going to 12.3 but the tram is way way worse then the su-39, so please make it a bit lower because 11.7 wil automatily go to 12.0 because of all the top tier premium tanks! (no hate to the top tier premium tanks but I find this change to be not resenable at all, the only way you can make this fair is by giving the skippers a buff)
3 Likes
Balancing a vehicle based on player stats is how the German M48 almost ended up at 6.7. Yes, the T25 is doing only marginally worse when it comes to those stats, but the T-34-85 STP has better gun handling thanks to the stabilizer, better mobility in that it has decent acceleration and is actually capable of hitting it’s top speed, and it has better armor. It’s not RELIABLE, as both the T-34’s armor and T25’s should be useless at that BR, but the T-34 is volumetric hell, with the turret, mg port, sponsons, and driver’s hatch all being capable of eating rounds for no reason. Not reliable, but it happens a fair bit, meanwhile the T25 will usually die in a single shot.
The ST-A1 and ST-A2 are interesting picks, as the A1 (last I played it, cause it has been quite a while) I seem to recall feeling a lot like T25. Fast on paper, but in practice it has god awful acceleration that prevents you from ever achieving those speeds. ST-A2 is a fair bit faster than T25 and ST-A1, but the mobility still isn’t great, and all three tanks suffer from having very poor armor protection. They also have the same gun, but the ST tanks get HEATFS to make up for their lack of armor, mediocre mobility, and poor survivability. They have poor to average mobility, useless armor, and poor survivability, with their only upside being the HEATFS round, which due to the weirdly high magnification on the gun sight can be quite hard to aim. The T25 suffers from all of these same issues, meanwhile it doesn’t get HEATFS.
As for the player stats, the STP is a good vehicle for its BR. You’ve got a subpar round, but good gun handling, good mobility, and armor that occasionally eats rounds it has no business eating. It’s easy to die in, but it’s also not that hard to do well in it, so the stats make sense. The ST tanks are quite tricky to use, and the Type 61 and ST-A3 are objectively better at 6.7, which you’re probably going to get uptiered to anyways. Most people playing Japan will only play the ST-A1 to unlock subsequent vehicles, and then never touch it again, and the ST-A2 is a completely optional vehicle since it’s foldered. The only people playing the ST-A1 and A2 are the really good players that have plenty of experience from other tech trees and have played so much of the rest of the Japanese tree that they have nothing better to do than research and spade the ST-A2, for which they’ll take out the A1 as a back up. (Unrelated, but now that you mention the ST-A1, that should really go down to 6.0 seeing as it’s basically just an M36B2 with slightly better roof armor.) The fact that only experienced players bother with the ST-A1 and A2 for any period of time is what leads to it having decent stats despite everything they have going against them.
The T25 is in one of the big three nations, which will definitely drag down it’s win rate, but how many of those bad players are actually bothering with it? The T25 is a foldered vehicle that most players will tell you is utter garbage, but even if you don’t have someone to tell you that, the M26 still comes right after it. Why would anyone, experienced player or not, waste time researching the T25 when the more famous and objectively better M26 is right there. Now, M26 shouldn’t be 6.7 anyways, but new players wouldn’t know that, and the rest of the US 6.7 lineup is good enough that it’ll only get used as a backup anyways. The only people bothering with T25 are experienced players that miss when it was good. That l, or experienced players that never played it in its hayday, and probably know it’s bad, but like the ST-A2 have nothing better to do than come back to a lower BR and play the tank they skipped. The T25 has a decent win rate, but that’s because nobody plays it, and the only people that do know to play SUPER conservatively to avoid dying to anything that sneezes at it. Even then you’re not going to do great, just ‘okay’.
Sorry, that’s a very long response, but pointing to player stats is not a good metric for determining whether something is balanced or not.
6 Likes
I forgot to say that u guys need to give the tram a proper radar!!!
I’m just going to leave this 1 hour old bug report here that just got accepted for … posterity.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/DHCU0sbM4UgA
TLDR:
- R-73
- R-27T
- R-27ET
- Pl-5E2
- Pl-8B
- Magic 2
All these FOV type irccm did not work properly. As I said before, R73s were longer range r60s. Everyone saying “i have no issue” just got proven wrong. We literally were firing longer range R60s.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
The WT community has literally just 2 brain cells, as long as missile goes turnywurny off the rail nobody notices anything wrong.
3 Likes
Boy who cried wolf situation unfortunately
… Is the only sensible approach, since the game is made to be played and enjoyed by players, not vehicles; and it is players who spend money, not vehicles; and that no vehicle in the game plays itself.
Different time. That debacle simply exposed the limitation of the closed-nation matchmaker. Now that it’s opened up, that is no longer an issue, as you can readily see by the fact that copy paste vehicles in different trees are always at the same BR even though the game is indeed balanced via statistics. So you are complaining about something that currently does not happen.
And that’s all it needs really. Because the point of balance is to give players a balanced experience where they are as close as possible to a 50% WR (ideal world from the devs’ pov).
Which I’m honestly not a fan of. It is a “kill assist” generator machine. APHE will almost always be the meta round unless you’re running into some armoured monster in a full uptier (even then tbh, APHE to a weakspot or from the side will net you an insta kill much easier than HEAT-FS).
These are common narratives, but they ring hollow to me. Yes, the Japanese tree has better players on average, but what I mean is that strong players gravitate towards strong vehicles. An experienced Japanese player in that BR range will be in a Ho-Ri, not an ST-A1. Just like American players with a “meta at all costs” mentality will prefer the T20 to the T25.
None of it really a reason to move the T25 down in BR.
Again, I disagree. While not all experienced players are the same, those who pay attention to what is and isn’t meta will just follow the meta (example: people who dropped the VK 3002 like a hot potato when it gained 7 tons of weight, people who started spamming the TIS MA minutes after the updated bomber damage model went live etc). So if they’re playing US 6.3 they’ll focus on the Jumbo 76 and the T20.
True.
Or it should stay 6.7 if and when all the strongest 6.7s become 7.0s (likely next round of decompression).
Nothing to apologise for! We’re chatting about a cherished hobby, that’s a good thing!
In a PVP context it’s pretty much the definition of balance tbh.
Assuming that players aren’t complete lobotomites sure
1 Like
Was really whacky testing it
Complete lobotomites are also customers and/or f2p lobby fillers and/or food for experienced players to shoot at/dead weight for experienced players to carry.
It is all part of the game design.
That doesn’t mean we should completely ruin any semblance of balance to cater towards them
Just look at the premium flankers man