Beat me to it.
Now that the over-G and rip speed mechanics have changed, this plane is far too strong for 10.0. It’s performance is very similar to the F-8E that is 0.7 BR above. Lacking AIM-9C is not that big of a difference.
4 Likes
I don’t think this will change. People still dogfighting with Zeros. It is basically useless in any other form of fight.
3 Likes
A) Calm down.
B) I was talking only about SB. I don’t care about AB or RB. And I am sorry, but a plane that does 180 within 3 seconds without losing any energy should either be at a BR where it’s unplayable or its flight model corrected.
Ho 229 used to be just like that some 4 years ago. But at least its wings folded above 550kmh when you pulled more than 9G. Airete however is just untouchable.
C) Use proper format.
MACHBET, ADDITION OF Mk.149 APDS AMMO BELT
The Machbet is currently Israel’s 9.3 SPAA, featuring the 20mm M168 autocannon and four FIM-92 Stingers. It is equipped with an IRST system and a laser rangefinder which can adjust the elevation of its cannon.
However, being at a BR of 9.3 it often faces supersonic jets and helicopters equipped with long range ATGM, things that its autocannon is essentially helpless against. While it does get the FIM-92 Stinger, it only gets four missiles and no reload and when you take into consideration how easily the FIM-92 can be defeated, the vehicle starts to show its weaknesses.
With the current implementation of the Stinger, it can get outranged by even stock helicopters and an even a propeller aircraft with enough airspeed will be able to outmaneuver it.
The gun on the other hand is a 20mm autocannon with a fire rate of 3000 rounds per minute. On a first look it seems amazing until you look at its ammunition. It has a maximum range of just 2000 meters with a very fast decelerating round. There are two main types of ammunition available, AP and HE. The AP shell has only 40mm of penetration at point blank which drops to only 22mm at 500 meters. Its HE shell has only 17 grams of TNT filler which barely does damage to aircraft.
That is where the Mk.149 comes in. It enhances the range by a further 2200 meters, bringing it up to 4200 meters, with 64mm of penetration (Same amount of penetration before the 20mm AP shell got nerfed) and a muzzle velocity of almost 1130m/s with much less deceleration. While it lacks any HE filler, it will significantly enhance the engagement range and make leading aircraft much easier.
A full APDS belt (or even two) of this kind would not be overpowered at its current BR because of the relatively low penetration and post penetration damage compared to other sub-caliber ammunition.
Additionally, there cannot be a mixed APDS - HE - APDS - HE belt due to the massive difference in bullet drop (HE has more than twice the bullet drop of the APDS)
15 Likes
AIR RB : Mig-23M/MF 11.0 → 10.7, Removal of R-60M
Sometime ago, the Mig-23 series of aircraft was severely nerfed. Having started as dogfight monsters they have severely fallen off from those days of glory. As they currently stand, they are outperformed in a dogfight by much heavier planes like the F-4 and even some attackers like the Su-17/22.
The Mig-23M and it’s German brother the Mig-23MF have ended up as a worse Su-17M4, having the same 6x R60M missiles but lacking the over 250 flares and other air to ground weapons such as the Kh-29T. The Mig-23M only has 12 countermeasures which can be used up in a single engagement leaving you essentially defenseless in a BR full of all-aspect missiles.
Moving them to 10.7 however would not be a great choice either because their 6x R-60M could be overwhelming as seen with the Su-17UM-3 where they fight flareless and completely defenseless planes. That is why a better alternative in my opinion is for the Mig-23M and the Mig-23MF to be moved down to 10.7 but lose their all aspect R-60M. While yes, they do still have the R-23T which is all aspect, it cannot be effectively used as such since it does not pull instantly and is also quite heavy which makes it rather difficult to actually use in a head on unless you use it like a Proximity Fuze rocket due to its low (2.3km) head on lock range.
The R-23T also got heavily affected by the drag changes a while back, significantly reducing its range. Same goes for the R-23R which not only takes 1.7 seconds before it even starts maneuvering, the radar offers no ACM lock mode which makes it even more difficult to use since you’re forced to use the wide scan search mode.
I personally feel like it will be a balanced 10.7 aircraft, comparable to the F-4C and other “heavy” fighters.
3 Likes
F8F-1 to 4.7? Why, it’s already far better than anything at it’s BR. Pls stop balancing by stats and do it with the actual vehicles’ performance
Also move the F-104s up if you do it with the SU-7s aswell, they’re better than the latter
13 Likes
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/SFJ3KZoGkHLi
CN m60a3 is too weak comparing to the US one while sitting at same BR
need to add M774 to CN M60A3
80 Likes
One can only huff copium and hope for the best.
RB, Leopard 2A4M: add DM53
I don’t see a reason to buy the 2A4M when the 2PL now has better armor AND firepower tbh. Maybe only the 2PL fixed DM43 or KE-W and the 2A4M DM53 instead?
9 Likes
Ground RB, XM8. 9.7 > 10.3
There is no US Ground lineup at 9.7 anymore. Why have this single vehicle there when it could instead receive the following buffs and serve a useful role in a higher BR?
-Add M900 which the vehicle used historically
-Add blow-out panels it has lacked since addition
6 Likes
Decompression is nice. Doesn’t help the most compressed BR of 11.7 itself (why is the 2A5 still the same BR as the 2A7???) but its alright.
Why aren’t the T-72A/M1 and ZTZ96 going up? Why is the PUMA going up?
F-14s going up- good.
Su-27s going down- bad
F-15s staying- bad
F-16s going down- extremely bad
MiG-21bis going down- bad
Mig-23s going down- good. But where are the ML, MLA, MLD?
Why is the F3H-2, one of the top 9.3s, going down???
And now BR changes that need to happen:
- Further decompression of ground to 12.7. Specifically, only affecting current 11.7s/soon 12.0s. Again, why is the 2A5 the same BR as the 2A7+?
- F-104s except the A/C need to be reduced by .3 across the board. They are just such poor aircraft with no maneuverability, and armament and speed matched by superior aircraft at their own BR. The Italian G also needs the extra pair of 9Js.
- The Leo A1A1 and TAM have opposite BRs- the TAM is more mobile, more survivable, and has LRF while the A1A1 doesn’t (and essentially every other 9.0 does). TAM and 2IP +.3, A1A1 -.3
- R-13Ms for all R-3S carriers except MiG-17AS, MiG-21F-13, and appropriate .3 BR increase for aircraft without R-60s
- Obj. 292 and 120S are still undertiered
- Many 6.7s still managed to avoid the BR jump from like a year ago… Come one why is the Tiger II P and H both the same BR? Why is the T34 fighting T-34s?
- F-4F still missing 9Ls 3 years later…
- M36s still undertiered
- 17pounder, SA-50 armed vehicles as well as the ARL-44 still undertiered
- Panzer IVs still undertiered
And I’ll link a fix for top tier aircraft-
3 Likes
Air RB, F-5C 11.0>10.7
It is absolutely mental to have F-5E at the same rank, when it has stronger engine and better missiles. One of the worst changes in the previous update, rendering the plane completely useless in current meta and facing planes that simply outperform him in both flight performance and weaponry. And no, moving F-5E to higher rank to justify that change is NOT what we are asking.
3 Likes
Yes!
Now that many of the former 10.3s and 10.7s have moved up, this plane is too powerful for 9.3.
9.7 is a good start to see how it does there.
Can’t wait to see Zero fight Tomcats
5 Likes
If you want to raise the Type 90 to 11.7, you need to strengthen the armor, or JM33
9 Likes
The Netz should go more down than from 13.0 to 12.7 it has no radar missiles and the Phyton 3 are just a bit better than AIM9L
Netz 13.0>12.3
1 Like
MIRAGE 4000
AIR RB MODE: 13.0 → 12.7
The flight model (nose authority at low speed is inexistant for a DELTA wing + canards,…)and weaponnary aren’t on par with Su-27/J-11 which are going down to 13.0
Mirage 4000 may have a lot of Magic-2, but need to use the fuel tanks to support them which adds drag and weight.
The Super 530D is clearly not on par with R-27ER abilities, neither is the RDM-3 radar in comparison to J-11/Su-27 radar.
Doesn’t recieved any form of HMD as for the Mirage 2000C-S5 which is at BR 12.3 Air RB, and not alike J-11/Su-27, which reduce the ability of Magic-2 at close range.
23 Likes
Just like in the historical documentary Top Gun!
1 Like
With these new BR changes I believe that a new shell for the Leclerc is long overdue.
It hasn’t received any new shell since its introduction in May 2019 (over 5 years ago !!), back then it was part of its uniqueness, a great shell on a good tank.
Nowadays the Leclerc gets completely overshadowed by its contemporaries, due to lackluster armor, over average but not exceptional mobility and large weakspots.
Tanks such as the 2PL and the M1A1 HC offer very similar gameplay but have edges over the Leclerc (most notably much more reliable armor and survivability) for only small drawbacks, and these tanks are now receiving significantly better firepower whilst being at a lower BR.
I believe that giving great firepower to the Leclerc would restore its uniqueness and give it a bit more reason to play it over its counterparts.
20 Likes
Take another look at the changes. F-5C was moved to 10.7. F-5E still at 11.0.