Planned Battle Rating changes for January 2024

[PyroAddict]

I guess it is my time to retaliate:

@theKEY

I wanna say things i cant say otherwise i get banned

omg how clever of you, stating the obvious of being a decent forum user

@theKEY

in top-tier those ways of play style (BnZ etc) don’t work out.

They do.

@theKEY

In top-tier fly play passively, fly low, stay out of the fur ball, pick up unaware targets

That really sounds like a classic full uptier playstyle, it doesn’t add up to me that a plane that is supposed to be a top tier should be played like that as a priority.

@theKEY

you have 4 radar missiles which are not R-27ER level but are still good

If the point is that the 7Ms is not the Skyflash, then you’ve made a really mediocre one.

@theKEY

it has the second-best flight model in the game, after the gripen.

Is it because of the energy retention blahblahblah that no one in fact uses except when they’re in a dogfight at the end of the game that funnily enough i’ve just seen a couple of F-15s to get to that point of the game.

I see that you’ve brought my stats to the table, im not ashamed at all of them as i assume that im an average player. I started playing again at June 2023 and i have no intentions to leave anytime soon.

@theKEY

not being that good =/= the plane is not good

thats the epitome of a basic argument. Now looking at your stats:

It seems that you can hold up pretty well, you’re a good player and im not discrediting your skill at any point and time, though i have multiple points to do, the first is that you’re so arrogant thats actually discoraging to keep a civilized debate around the plane, and second and most is that im certainly suprised that you have not only a conveniently larger and exponential amount of stats in the Su-27 than the F-15, you also have a better K/D ratio in the flanker.

So it looks for me that you want the F-15s to be the plane that is not up to your favorite new toy. you get here and do tedtalks about the missiles not being that bad and having the 2nd best flight model, only behind the Gripen! —without HMD—.

Talking about conflicts of interest, Gaijin has the final word, and even if they do think like you and the plane turns out to be really good, they will look at their database and the playerbase performance. If all the variants have terrible stats, they won’t raise the plane to 12.7, it is really simple as that. Like the M4K, the F-15 is not the most friendly plane to the current 12.3 and future 12.7, and its really unfair to get the Mirage4k moved in the first place because of their stat-based balancing, both planes should stay at 12.3.

[FlipAllTheTables]

@Michal9787

• Identical guns and ammo count
• The turn times are identical
• The Ko variant has a very slightly better rate of climb (about 1 meter per second)
• The Ko variant is slower by about 20 kph compared to the tech tree A6M5

You’re comparing stat cards. The actual performance of the planes is identical.

@Michal9787

J2M2 and J2M4: The J2M should stay at 5.0 and the M4 can go to 5.3.
The M4 variant has 4 cannons and is faster than the M2, so i think it’s okay to put it on 5.3, but the M2 is slower, albeit with a better climb rate, but has only two cannons supplemented by two weak 7 mm machine guns. Also the M2 has only 100 rounds per gun, while the M4 has at least 150.
Tl;Dr J2M2 should stay at 5.0, J2M4 can go up to 5.3

The J2M4 has advantages in armament, but the performance is way worse. The advantage in speed is only at much higher altitudes, and it doesn’t compensate for the J2M4s way worse turn and climb rate.

[armornabot555]

British comet/charioteer going down but not finnish ones intentional or not?

[ehj78]

Wtf ?? Why is the 7.7 French lineup having an enormous nerf without reason ?

[SanguineSerpent]

Probably not

[CodyBlues]

They really aren’t though, if we are talking about air RB the A-10s are amazing aircraft. I fly them out often and they are my go to easy grind vehicles. The only reason you are getting easy kills on them is because they are being flown by people who don’t know how to use them.

The Tram is easier to deal with in air but in ground battles the thing can sit outside the range of most SPAAs and take out entire teams.

[SanguineSerpent]

4s reload with 210mm pen APHE M82 or ~270mm pen AP rounds, and decent mobility.
They stomp at 6.7 but suffer quite a bit in a full uptier (8.7). It kinda sucks that they’re all going to 8.0 but I kinda understand why.

[ehj78]

210 is not enough even at 7.7 so it’ll be terrible at 8.0. Seriously they keep getting nerfed for no reason other than being fun. They are huge and have no armour, so don’t tell me people find them OP.
And the Somua is AGAIN going up ? It was the only decently armoured tank in the French tree and now it’s gonna be useless. Great i guess.

[Pilot23045234]

Well it would not be the first time that gaijin does something like that.

The german m48 was 0.3 Br lower than every other m48 for several years.

[SanguineSerpent]

210mm is not enough… at yet there is the IS-4M with only 230mm, and T32E1 with only 224mm with absymal reload. They sort of make up for it with their armour.
In the same vein, the 210mm is good enough for most tanks you face (other than super heavies). Even then, flanking with them (especially with the char 25t) is a must, and should reap great rewards.

[dotKEYツ]

@Pyro_Addict

They do.

they dont, those tactics apply for props and early jets, not for top-tier where your main weapon are you missiles.

@Pyro_Addict

That really sounds like a classic full up tier play style, it doesn’t add up to me that a plane that is supposed to be a top tier should be played like that as a priority.

that sounds like the avg top-tier gameplay, no matter if down or up tier

@Pyro_Addict

If the point is that the 7Ms is not the Skyflash, then you’ve made a really mediocre one.

the 7M is a good radar missile, not on r27er level but still good - thats the point.

@Pyro_Addict

Is it because of the energy retention blahblahblah that no one in fact uses except when they’re in a dogfight at the end of the game that funnily enough i’ve just seen a couple of F-15s to get to that point of the game.

its not only because of the energy retention, it’s the roll rate, the pull on high speed, the pull on slow speeds the ability to quickly change directions etc and yes, of course energy retention is also big aspect but not the only one

@Pyro_Addict

thats the epitome of a basic argument. Now looking at your stats:

thats literally the point that applies to you.

@Pyro_Addict

the first is that you’re so arrogant thats actually discouraging to keep a civilized debate around the plane

if you see it that way im sorry but im not coping about something, just stating the facts of top-tier arb and a planes performance and im not alone with the opinion that F15 should go to 12,7 as well (for example DEFYN thinks the same)

@Pyro_Addict

not only a conveniently larger and exponential amount of stats in the Su-27 than the F-15, you also have a better K/D ratio in the flanker.

it is because i GE`d every needed mod in the flanker (all missiles etc) and on the F15 i didnt.

@Pyro_Addict

2nd best flight model, only behind the Gripen!

because it is? maybe?

@Pyro_Addict

Talking about conflicts of interest, Gaijin has the final word, and even if they do think like you and the plane turns out to be really good, they will look at their database and the playerbase performance. If all the variants have terrible stats, they won’t raise the plane to 12.7, it is really simple as that. Like the M4K, the F-15 is not the most friendly plane to the current 12.3 and future 12.7, and its really unfair to get the Mirage4k moved in the first place because of their stat-based balancing, both planes should stay at 12.3.

ofc gaijin needs to decide in the end but that doesnt mean we cant debate about upcoming changes

[Lyn_poster]

Reads like butthurt, the F-15 should be 12.7 like the rest of the new 4th gens thats just a fact stop trying to make higher tier jets lower in br relative to where they should be the F-15 should not be fighting phantoms and Mig-23 also what are you trying to claim with 7Ms and skyflash, the skyflash is a horrible missile

[ehj78]

“only” 230 in enough to pen anything that other nations have to throw at you if you’re playing russia. Only the T32 struggles a bit.

with 210 you can’t pen ANY russian tank from the front other than lightly armoured stuff. Good luck flanking a T-54 by the way or dealing with the volumeshit side armour of the IS family.

And now you’re telling me that i’ll have to face the obj 279 with 210mm of pen and no armour ?

[Bergebis]

I don’t think a lot of these changes make a lot of sense, and I’m concerned that player using things like the Zero, French 7.7 line up, and T20 are being punished for effectively using tanks that are not better than their competition. additionally, many of these vehicles, like the French 7.7 line up will not be competitive and effective against the increase in 8.7 and new 9.0 enemies.

[ehj78]

Agreed. Same for the AMX 10 P. It’s going at the same BR than the BTR ZD while being worse in every domain. 1 20 mm autocanon vs 2 23mm ones … wtf ?

[SanguineSerpent]

Yes, only 230mm. The IS-4M cannot even pen the cheeks of the Maus. And I didn’t just say M82 shot. Are you ignoring my comments on the AMXs with ~270mm pen?
T-54s can be flanked (just like with any tank really), but it might be more difficult than something like an IS-4M. You can even shoot its cupola with M82 shot and will kill its gunner and commander.
As for volumetric shit, that’s not a problem inherent to AMXs.

Obj 279 is a different problem. It used to be 8.7, and screwed up 7.7s very easily. Now that it’s 9.0, it’s still the same issue since most 7.7s went up to 8.0. The object 279 should honestly go to 9.3 (although it will definitely start suffering in 10.3 uptiers if they’re not careful).

[MokaMoki]

I’m a bit lost on why the AGS needs to be increased. A better penning round can’t be the only reason. Speed and maneuverability? No different than say the TAM 2IP. Small, fast, easy to maneuver, able to scout, and has a 400+ pen round and that’s at 9.7.

The AGS is fine where it’s at. If anything, the HSTV-L needs to come down to 10.3.

I want to say yes here but Gaijin is aware of the fact their game has up-tiers and down-tiers right? With the (poor and unnecessary) implementation of spall liners, it’s going to have front row seats on the struggle bus in terms of viability against 11.7 MBTs.

[Lord_Prism]

Gaijin doesn’t care about vehicle characteristics/capabilities, they see numbers on a spreadsheet and adjust

[MokaMoki]

If that was the case, US top-tier wouldn’t be in such a horrible state.

[ehj78]

@SanguineSerpent

The IS-4M cannot even pen the cheeks of the Maus

But it can clearly tank some shots while its allies kill the Maus.

@SanguineSerpent

AMXs with ~270mm pen

Singular since only the Somua is going up. That means that the problem with it is it’s armour that really is nothing special since any T-54 is even better protected.

@SanguineSerpent

As for volumetric shit, that’s not a problem inherent to AMXs.

Yet they are the only ones going up.

@SanguineSerpent

Obj 279 is a different problem

Should be completely removed but that’s a story for another time.