German main moment ™️
1 Like
You seriously need to remove the M18, Super Hellcat, and M551(76) changes from the list of RB changes.
The M18s while more responsive than they used to be, are still not better than they were before their first engine nerf. They are fine at 5.7 and they honestly should be 5.3 for the Super Hellcat to be justified at 5.7 without being “pay to win”. The 76mm Loses it’s shine after 5.3, by 5.7 the short US 90mm should be standard armament, the ones like seen on the T25 (also an over-br’d tank) and M36s. Their firepower is more equal to the competition as well as reload.
On the other hand the Super Hellcat should be doing the opposite of moving up in BR. It is a vehicle that is way out of its league at 6.3 as it is, with a gun that isn’t really justified at the BR to begin with on a chassis that shouldn’t be above 5.7. The vehicle itself has and always will belong at 5.7, not 6.3 and DEFINITELY NOT 6.7. The Super Hellcat is heavier than the 76mm Hellcats and it is very noticable when it comes to acceleration. It’s a 90mm with no HEAT attached to a vehicle with no armor that belongs at 5.7 that is now being moved to 6.7???
Hellcats as a whole are a 5.3-5.7 range vehicle and so far the variants we have in game do not justify a higher or a lower BR than that. They are a pretty good light tank but definitely not the best and definitely not 6.0 material. Already no US vehicle with a US 76mm WITHOUT APDS should ever exist above 5.7 in the current state of BR ranges. Current vehicles with the short US 90mm also should not exist above 6.3 on “normal” tanks (exception being the Jumbo Pershing because it has armor to offset the lackluster gun at 6.7) Another example of an over-br’d short 90mm is the latest M4 Sherman with a Pershing turret. It should be 5.7 not 6.0.
Finally, the M551(76); a tank that sits somewhere between a B+ and an A- is now going to 7.0 where it’s gun is borderline fucking useless, even if it got the lackluster HEAT for its gun. All because it was semi-competitive and could SOMETIMES be better than an M41A1 in certain situations. A tank that can be reliably and easily killed with 7.62mm machine guns from the sides (though it won’t happen often from other tanks because you’ll just be 1-shot), doesn’t have enough armor to resist 12.7mm rounds frontally, yet has enough armor from all angles to set off every single APHE round in the game to my knowledge allowing it to be easily 1-shot ANYWHERE by pretty much every vehicle in the game that has a gun larger than 57mm. All while it still must aim for weak spots taking between 2-3 shots to kill or the occasional 1-shot if APDS decides to actually set off ammo; with a roof mounted .50 that can’t aim high enough to actually defend itself from CAS reasonably, which can be killed even easier from above by a bi-plane with 7.62mm guns. In most cases a (still somehow) 6.3 M41A1, or the German (somehow) 6.7 M41A1 with HEAT and smoke launchers, would be better in nearly every way besides lacking a stabilizer, which doesn’t really come in handy that often anyhow because it’s not a point and click gun; both of which can actually survive being shot, resist .50s and even some auto cannons, being nearly immune to a lot of CAS guns, and both of which having a .50 that can also aim high enough and with enough horizontal traverse to usually not even need to move the turret, to defend themselves from CAS.
The only thing making the M551(76) worth even using is the fact that it is a premium so you get better rewards, and the fact that it has a DECENT stabilizer (that low vertical targeting speed limits how effective it is and you can most definitely feel it, quite it gets you killed especially with how bad 3rd person targeting can be making your gun aim into space). It’s not that fast, being beaten by M41s in every way that actually matters when it comes to mobility (it’s top speed is higher than the M41 but you only hit it going downhill or after a LOG stretch of road, but your acceleration is terrible because despite being extremely light, the engine has what feels like 0 torque).
The other thing is, the main reason why it is doing so well right now is people for some reason see it and think they need to actually “aim” for something on it. Mainly people not even knowing what it is yet (yes it’s a technically 8.3 chassis at 6.7 but even the normal M551 is over-br’d anyway). Most people using it are people who know what they’re doing as well, with a combination of a lot of players not paying attention to surroundings. Very few instances have I actually done something that I couldn’t have done easier and better in the M41 for the most part.
The APDS on the US 76mm is terrible when it comes to post pen damage, and it’s penetration isn’t very good either. It’s not good enough to lol-pen and it’s not good enough to completely ignore angles either. It loses penetration very heavily over distance. It has to aim for the same weak spots a 90mm has to, only advantage being that it is at least somewhat better than having to use APCR.
If the M551(76) goes to 7.0 so should the Centurion MK.2, and the M551(76) should also at least get HEAT to give it the illusion of a tradeoff. Especially since the only redeeming quality about it is the stabilizer and premium status.
Every update now seems to always have a huge nerf for USA, and if your intention is to make sure the US tree goes from majority to completely over-br’d across the board and having almost 0 equally competitive vehicles; you’re doing a great job at that and this set of changes is another step in that direction. Everytime USA gets something decent and equally competitive to its opponents you over-br said vehicle and nerf it to the ground. Along with the myriad of US vehicles that are implemented incorrectly to begin with and are already worse than all of its equivalent opponents around it both above and below.
Please stop using statistical balancing and please for the love of God and the sake of the game actually improving, actually look at and compare vehicles based on what they can actually do, their upsides, downsides, etc. NOT STATISTICS. Not everything needs to be moved. The list of US vehicles that are over-br’d, improperly represented, severely sub-par, and artificially worse than competitors is massive right now and it is basically the majority of the tree, which alot has been caused by your improper use of statistics to balance them. Stop making it worse, start making it better. Make that number less not more, you’re making it more with this set of “balance” changes.
4 Likes
Stop selling us Battlepasses and then immediately upping the BR of the main vehicle without any compensation to the players. You did this also with Object 248 and it is scummy to sell these Battlepasses with unrealistic BR for the main prize when you know you will have to change it.
2 Likes
RB:
M551 8.0 to 8.3
Add TTS (thermal and laser rangefinder) pack as a modification.
MH-60L DAP 11.3 to 11.0
AB:
OH-58D 9.7-9.3
despite having advanced missile, quantity is significantly below average level
AH-6 9.7 to 9.3
same reason above
Here comes the moaning and whining season again:D
1 Like
Israel main here. Got the entire tech tree, most spaded. Ive been able to clap enemy vehicles with amazing results with games reaching 10-15 kills, in succession. I feel like this is a good br for the 9.3 magachs. However, the merk mk1 and mk2 should go back to their original 9.0 br, because of not having the m426 round, which is an amazing round.
why at 8.0 if theres the normal m551 at that br, rather make 76 sheridan at 7.0
Only want the Chieftain reload buff this time around 5 seconds aced please
4 Likes
Me 262 meeting MiG 15 is not ok
3 Likes
For the air changes, moving the aircraft down would only ruin lower battle ratings. Consider decompressing and moving everything 9.3+ up instead of moving aircraft down to 8.3 and 8.0.
For high tier air, the F-15s should see a battlerating increase. The MiG-29 is currently in a weird spot weapons wise, I think it’s time it gets R-73s and the removal of the R-27ERs alongside a battlerating increase.
The T-80UD and Object 292 need to see a battlerating increase. They outclass all other 10.0s by a substantial margin.
I don’t believe moving the M18 Hellcats up in battlerating is a good change. They are potent vehicles but at a great sacrifice in protection.
I do not believe the early T-34s are 4.0 material. Their only advantage is speed. Their firepower was already subpar at its battlerating.
TO-55 needs to be 8.3. A marginally worse T-55A should not be the same battlerating as the T-54.
Directly addressing the people complaining about the 2S38, I personally do not understand the claims that it should move up in battlerating. We have the Lvkv-9040, Strf-9040C and BILL at 10.0 which are comparable but superior in most metrics.
Just a couple things I thought of to give feedback on. I believe some other changes need to happen, but I don’t think I have enough knowledge to make my opinion somewhat credible on other subjects of balance.
3 Likes
L-62 ANTI II 2.7 3.0
- inevitable
ZSU-37 3.7 3.3 Moved to Rank II and grouped with the ZiS-12.
- understandable, but group it with ZiS-43 instead. Similar armament and mobility.
ZiS-12 is completely different beast with different playstyle.
Ostwind 3.7 3.3 Switched positions with the Wirbelwind.
- now, this is surprising. Ostwind is better AA than Wirbelwind, due to better effective range and that one hit potential. It lacked penetration vs ground targets compared to other high caliber SPAAs, so this will help against ground making it more versatile.
BTR-152D 3.7 4.0
- inevitable
M42 4.3 4.0 Grouped with the M19A1.
- great change, M42 just trades gun depression and reverse speed of M19A1 for speed and rotation.
BTR-ZD 5.7 6.0
- understandable
ZiS-43 Grouped with the BTR-152A.
- again, no, just group ZiS-43 with ZSU-37, grouping it with BTR-152A is weird af
3 Likes
Well, they made some roster changes in one of the last bugfix patches.
Yet again some of the worst BR changes I’ve ever seen.
The M-18’s have nothing to do at 6.0. They are completely fine at 5.7 and the Super Hellcat nothing at 6.7.
The Ostwind going down to 3.3 doesn’t make any sense, when the M19 and M42 are still at 4.0, since the Ostwind still has the better firerate and armor.
And then the French are getting shafted again. The AMX-30 DCA is a worse Gepard or Chieftain Marksman, so why exactly is it the only one going up to 8.7? It doesn’t ruin the line-up, but there is still no reason for why the unstabilized SPAA with the worse radar should be a higher BR.
The Roland 1 going down to 9.7, would be fine. But I would still say it should stay at 10.0, due to the XM975 and FlaRakPz1 being 10.3, and the only thing holding the Roland really back is the lack of gunelevation. The SANTAL at 9.3 is good enough to fill the gap from 9.3 to 10.0.
The Air changes are a 50/50. The MiG-15bis, 17;PF and F-2 Sabres going down is something good, since they don’t have to see R-60’s and AiM-9L’s anymore. But some MiG-15’s and Sabres going down to 8.0 is something really bad, because they will just dominate every early jets in the BR’s from 7.0-7.7.
Changes gonna be good if none of those planes go below 8.3.
The AMX going up is just shafting Italy, it’s a subsonic groundpounder. It can dogfight, but if you are in a MiG-21 or F-5C you can easily outplay it. Essentially it’s just a better SU-25, and it being .3 BR over the SU-25 is completely fair.
At 10.7 it fights planes that it shouldn’t fight like the Mirage 2000C, F-14A, J-8B etc.
What I am more questioning, why aren’t any of the (premium) Russian, German etc. vehicles not going up, while they are actually unbalanced. For example, Tiger 2 (H), 2S38, TURM 3, TO-55 etc.
Remove 50% of the BR changes and I guess it would be fine, but right now these are really bad.
2 Likes
Hey man after like almost 1000 posts, no one cares about the 120s? I mean this thing has a 11.0 weapon, every time it sees full downtier it goes 8-0, saw one of them had a nuke camping the enemy spawn at space port, its like having 3BM60 at 10.0 like the 2S25M but this time is have armor in a hull down position lol
I feel like we are forgetting some other subsonic jets like the A32, A29 and possibly the J32. Also the French Mystere IV and IIs. Why is AMX going up but not the A10 or Su-25K. I don’t mind the Fox going to 7.7 as I think that was inevitable. But the Majority of these proposed changes are wrong. Also poor 262s fighting Sabres and MiGs, that is not going to go well. I appreciate the R-60MK being added to the Su-22M3 as it was sorely needed as it does not have the performance to compete solely with rear aspect missiles. Doing decompression gradually is not going to help the game and will likely taint the statistics of a lot of subsonic jets. Doing a lump decompression to make every vehicle viable in its specific role would be welcome I think.
4 Likes
These changes are absolutely atrocious. With the exception of maybe the Fox, all these BR changes accomplish is screwing up lineups. This is without a doubt the worst set of BR changes, which is a pity given the previous batch wasn’t too bad aside from the AMX-13 FL11 being thrown to 4.3.
The T-34 does not deserve a spot at 4.0. Not only does it screw up the 3.7 lineups of USSR and Sweden, the 3.7 medium tank trifecta felt like an ideal balance of speed (T-34), power (Pz IV), or a stabiliser (75 Sherman). I do not see how the T-34 is equal to the 4.0 Sherman, a tank which it cannot UFP with even a bit of range or angle which has a stabiliser and .50 cal. I understand the game has a speed meta, but the T-34 isn’t fast enough to make up for the fact that its gun is the worst of the 3.7s, and now it’s the highest BR of the three.
The M18 being raised again screws the 5.7 lineup. It’s really saying something how increasingly unsatisfying USA Ground is to play because all the tanks keep getting upBRed, and this one is no exception. For the counterarguments I’ve heard of “now it can’t bully 4.7s”, there are barely any of those left because virtually all of them got moved up as well. This certainly feels like a preemptive BR change due to the HP buff, but it’s certainly insane to me that another mid tier USA vehicle gets upBRed before it could even prove how problematic the new buff would be.
The M551 76 being moved up is honestly scummy. If you’re going to release effectively time-limited (if one doesn’t want to pay triple the price) vehicles, it is practically outright unethical to release them at a lower BR than you very much internally know they deserve in order to bait purchases. This thing wouldn’t even be that scary as it can be trivially MGed. The T92 should be moved down rather than this thing being moved up.
The BMP-1 being moved up is honestly just hilarious. This thing is already an exercise in frustration to play due to how inconsistent HEAT can be and how awful many ATGMs are to use due to the ATGM nerf last year. I am genuinely unsure what sort of 6.7 players are dying to a 290m/s ATGM in large enough numbers to warrant a BR increase, but the ATGM nerf needs to be undone if this is going to go up in BR. It again just removes it out of relevancy, as I see no Germany players who will want to use this in their 8.0 lineup over the DF105 for HEAT or Marder 1A3 for ATGMs, while USSR players still have the incredibly potent Object 906. China players might still want to keep this in their 8.0 lineups due to having no other option, but this otherwise throws the BMP-1 into irrelevance overnight as no Germany/USSR player is going to uptier a heavy tank dependent lineup to accommodate this awful thing.
4 Likes
Funnily enough, the M1A1 is literally better than both the C1 and PSO but yet the Ariete’s aren’t 11.0 (except the AMV, that one can be 11.3-11.7).
OTOMATIC still being 11.3 is just a crime. 2S6 being at 10.7, 2S38 at 10.0 etc. (not only talking about Russia)
As an Italy and France enjoyer, I just love how every BR Changes we just get shafted.
2 Likes
Gaijin doesn’t want 10.0 Russian lineup to go up against 11.3 vehicles. That’s why we are obliged to enjoy playing against this imposed on our heads meta
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If the Sd.Kfz.234/2 Puma moves up to 3.7, then it should also move up to Rank III. At 3.7 there are allready other Rank III vehicles and Germany doesnt have a Rank III light tank around that br.
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I’m glad that you are adding more diverse weaponry, but please do adjust battle ratings accordingly in ALL GAME MODES.
Su-22M3 with 6xR60M at 10.3 in SIMULATOR battles is absurd! Please do not ruin Enduring Confrontation. Su-17M4 is the same aircraft but has a weaker engine, and it sits at 10.7 where it belongs.
Sinne loadouts are discussed in the document above I will take this opportunity to discuss them some more. Some time ago the MiG-21bis was added to Finland. This aircraft has totally wrong armament, presumably because it was just copied and pasted. Finland never had R-60M(K) missiles. Just the regular R-60. Also the double pylon was not used, and 6 AA missiles was never carried. There is a change to give Sweden (Finland) a really unique vehicle at 10.7, so please use this opportunity!
The lack of R-60 is super easy to verify. The lack of double pylon maybe not so. My information is directly from a MiG-21 (F-13 & bis) pilot. He also shared a story of the only time he shot a live R-60. He was flying away from the sun. When he released it the missile did an immediate 120 ° turn over the wing straight from the rail, and presumably went for the sun! But please don’t model this behaviour.
(Edit: What is going on!? I can edit my post! I left the forum out of frustration when the old forum was abandoned, the main reason being that it wasn’t possible to edit the posts until you had 60(?) posts. What the **** was that c**p anyway…)