It can also carry eight Fox-3 missiles…
Mode: Ground Realistic Battles
Vehicle: Wiesel 1A4
BR Change: 7.3 → 6.7 / 7.0
Reasoning:
The Wiesel 1A4 is currently over‑tiered at 7.3. While it features thermal imaging and a laser rangefinder, these do not justify its current BR for an SPAA vehicle with only a 20mm DM63 cannon.
Insufficient Firepower & Protection: The 20mm DM63 round cannot effectively penetrate common U.S. and Soviet medium or heavy tanks at 7.3, while the vehicle itself has extremely poor protection – it can even be penetrated by .50 cal fire from the front.
Limited Benefit of Thermal & LRF: The laser rangefinder offers little advantage on a 66mm penetration cannon. Most battles around 7.0 are on small maps where thermal imaging is not essential for target acquisition. As a pure SPAA vehicle, these features contribute far less than they would on an MBT.
Comparison to Similar Vehicles: The SUB-I-II and AMX-10P sit at BR 5.x, while the Wiesel 1A4 is placed at 7.3 – a massive gap for vehicles with comparable combat roles and firepower. Apart from thermal and LRF, it is essentially a more mobile SUB-I-II.
Tactical Gap for Germany: Germany lacks high‑mobility vehicles after 6.3, which prevents its slow heavy tanks from reaching the front line effectively. Lowering the Wiesel 1A4 would fill this tactical gap, providing the team with much‑needed scouting and flanking support.
Alternative Solution: If a BR reduction is not granted, removing the thermal and laser rangefinder and lowering it to 6.x would be a reasonable compromise.
Therefore, the Wiesel 1A4 should be moved down to 6.7 or 7.0 to better reflect its actual combat effectiveness.
2 Likes
The United States dollar bill is a green and grey paper note measuring 6.14 by 2.61 inches. Made of 75% cotton and 25% linen, it features a portrait of George Washington on the front and the Great Seal of the United States on the back.
Snail favourite dish and reason premium su30s sit at 13.3.
2 more instead of 2 r73?
Mode: Ground Realistic Battles
Vehicle: Ar 234 C3
BR Change: 7.3 → 7.0
Reasoning:
The Ar 234 C3 should be moved down to 7.0, in line with the recent BR reduction of the IL‑28 from 7.3 to 7.0 in Ground Realistic Battles. Compared to the IL‑28, the Ar 234 C3 carries only three bombs total, with a significantly smaller payload – far less than the IL‑28’s multiple bomb options. This severely limits its ground‑attack efficiency, as it can destroy at most three targets per sortie, whereas the IL‑28 can carry a much heavier and more versatile loadout. Additionally, the IL‑28 is equipped with a defensive tail turret for self‑protection, while the Ar 234 C3 has no defensive armament at all, making it far more vulnerable to enemy fighters and interceptors. Given that the IL‑28 has already been deemed suitable for 7.0, the Ar 234 C3 – with inferior ordnance and no rear defense – certainly does not belong at a higher BR. Therefore, it should be reduced to 7.0 to reflect its actual combat effectiveness in the CAS role.
7 Likes
It would be like the Su-34, yeh.
But with hms which is neat for r73 off bore shots
1 Like
It’s because the Su-34 has eight fox 3s.
1 Like
Mode: Ground Realistic Battles
Vehicle: M163, ZSU-23-4M2
BR Change: 7.3 → 7.7
Reasoning:
Both the M163 and ZSU-23-4M2 are currently over‑performing at 7.3 and should be moved up to 7.7.
The M163 features a 3000 rpm cannon with no overheating, allowing sustained fire, and is equipped with an optical tracking system that provides a lead indicator, making target engagement highly effective against any airborne threat.
The ZSU-23-4M2 mounts four 23mm cannons with a devastating rate of fire and carries 4000 rounds, with an additional 4000 rounds available via an ammunition box (reserve), giving it virtually unlimited sustained firepower. Even without radar, its fast turret traverse and high‑velocity ammunition make it lethal against low‑flying targets.
At 7.3, both of these vehicles frequently face late‑WWII propeller aircraft and early jets that have no stand‑off weapons or countermeasures, making them virtually untouchable. They are far more capable than other SPAAs at this BR, such as the Wiesel 1A4 (which is not even a dedicated AA), while comparable radar‑equipped or high‑calibre SPAAs like the VEAK 40 and zsu-37-2 already sit at 7.7. Raising both the M163 and ZSU‑23‑4M2 to 7.7 would align them with similarly effective anti‑air platforms and prevent them from dominating lower‑tier matches.
3 Likes
This change means mkk will be able to have both 2 ld10 and 2 r77 while having 6 kh29td. Also if it can carry r77 on inner r73 pylons, can it carry 2 more pl12 as well? If yes that means it can also carry 2 more ld10 considering its based on sd10, export variant of pl12.
I made a quick, low-effort discussion post about this a while ago, and apparently the Chinese Su-30 can also carry the R-77-1.
The discussion was mainly about moving the aircraft up in battle rating while figuring out its capabilities. I also wanted to find out whether it could use the dual missile pylons like the Su-27. From what I found, the Su-27 can’t actually use the dual pylons after all; apparently, only the Su-35 can.
A lot of people liked the idea of a 13.7 Su-30 with dual pylons, but it would completely upset the balance at lower battle ratings. The tech tree Su-27SM is already very strong with the dual pylons too.
1 Like
If i had to choose between an MK2/MKK and 27SM/J11B at 13.7, i would take anything else with a working radar lol
Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Mirage 4000
Proposed change: 13.0 → 12.7
Given that F-15A with a similar weapon kit is at 12.7. This aircraft simply does not belong at 13.0. Its radar is identical to the 2000C, and its semi-active missiles are worse than contemporaries such as 27ER and 7P. Only good thing about the aircraft is the Magic II count which is irrelevant considering Eagle can carry 4x9M with 4x7Ms at a lower battle rating. DEFAs are less forgiving than the M61 found on the F-15 as well.
Mode: Air RB
Vehicle: Mirage 2000C-S4
Proposed change: Countermeasures update.
S5 lowered back to it’s OG BR was a step in the right direction, but this change made S4 obsolete. Since it cannot go down to 12.0 it is best to give the countermeasures suite and the MAW found on the S5. Currently it sits in the same BR with same exact performance minus countermeasures and maw which does not make sense at all.
3 Likes
Vehicles: Hawk 200 (UK) & Hawk 209 (Japan)
Mode: Ground Realistic Battles
New BR: 10.7 → 10.3
Now that Hawk 200 RDA (UK) is being moved from 11.0 to 10.7, there is no need for these two remain at 10.7 and they should be lower. Hawk 200 RDA is a substantially better plane due to sheer loadout alone because it doesn’t have to sacrifice anything to be better compared to those two.
Hawk 200 has no radar but has 4xAIM-9Ls paired with internal twin ADEN to compensate with alongside decent payload. Hawk 209 at least has something it could potentially receive to keep it relevant at 10.7 but Hawk 200 literally cannot get anything more. IT HAS TO BE LOWERED TO 10.3.
Hawk 209 has a radar but has 4xAIM-9P-4 with 10G less pull and only a single external gun so it has more drag. To get more of your payload or better flight performance, you have to sacrifice the ADEN pod. AGM-65G advantage is mostly due to longer track range but that is around 4km~. Unless Hawk 209 has access to 6xAIM-9P-4 and 3xSea Eagle, its pointless to let it be at 10.7. With how it is and it being a premium, there has to be an incentive to keep it relevant at 10.7. Unless its upgraded (fixed actually), it has to be lower than 200 RDA.
3 Likes
Vehicle: t14
Mode: ground rb
Br change: 4.7>5.0
Reason: if the Churchill mk7 is considered adequate to be raised to 5.0 i believe the similar t14 should receive a likewise increase in br
3 Likes
Eight Fox 3 missiles and four Fox 2 missiles on an Su-30mk? I wouldn’t want to deal with that in a 13.0 or 12.7 aircraft during a sale. It could work if proper decompression were implemented, but right now it would just be a pain in the neck.
Gamemode: RB
Vehicle: Leopard 1A5
BR: 9.3 → 9.3
Comment:
The 1A5 is a perfectly fine MBT for 9.3. Instead of downtiering it I would suggest the following:
Leopard 1A5, C2A1 → add DM63
5 Likes
I would overall not wanna play the MKK or MK2 if they were 13.7 in current compression, no point to play them there because from my own experience and many of my friends 13.7 is almost always 14.7. They do not stand a chance there even remotely when compared to the SM and 11B. Ask for 15.0/15.3 Air, then move them to 13.7 together with most current 13.7s going to 14.0
Something like this?
Vehicle: USS Aylwin/ USS Gridley/ USS Bagley( Helm)
Mode:AB
BR:3.7⇒4.0 4.0⇒4.3
These ships’ main battery firepower is clearly overtuned for their current BR bracket.
They can fire 15 rounds per minute until their ready-use ammunition is depleted, and even afterward they still maintain 12 rounds per minute, giving them an exceptionally high sustained rate of fire. On top of that, their speed, torpedoes, and every other fundamental performance characteristic are above average, making them excellent destroyers overall.
Gridley and Bagley (Helm) are even more extreme, as they do not have a ready-use ammunition limitation at all, allowing two of their guns to maintain a constant 15 rounds per minute. (The recently added Gridley also has 250 crew members, addressing what was previously its main weakness.)
They are essentially “mini Fletchers,” and I believe a +0.3 BR increase would be appropriate for all of them.
1 Like
One post per vehicle.
1 Like