Petition for remove or nerf pantsir s1

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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8km.
America matches it with 8km, though has always used helicopters as fire support instead of direct anti-vehicle attackers. Most has been invested into aircraft instead of helicopters.
Germany has 7km FnF missiles.
UK gets the fastest helicopter-mounted anti-everything projectile in the game… And can first-spawn with it.
China gets 8km missiles.
Italy gets 8km FnF missiles.
France gets 8km FnF missiles.
Israel gets 8km FnF missiles.

America gets a 10.5km smokeless ATGM that doesn’t trip RWRs as well.
There’s also the AIM-120 dilemma…
China gets 12km VLS missiles.
Germany gets unbelievable 12km missiles… Seriously, why does this thing not lose maneuverability?

Why should Russia be the only nation without thermal pods?
The same straw-grasp arguments can be dumbed down to such a point that they legitimately counter these.

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beam riding, also can be multi fired in a row at 11.0, not even 11.7
imo its better than the 11.7 tiger uht because its in russian teams and never faces pantsir and doesnt necessarily face FRR

didnt read the news?
they removed that

and most of all those other ones get their max ranges at 11.7
while russia has it at 11.0

oh boo hoo, 10.5 km is nothing against top br cas

oh and the pantsir also has smokeless missiles but they only leave smoke for the first 2-4 seconds

see?
you know its not equality when the r-77 faces 120B

understand what we feel when we face the pantsir and we only have 12km max (10km effective)

does.
see it move after 8km

also sweden and france have the ITO-90M with 8 of these ready to fire and no research required while germany gets only 2 and its a rank 3? modification

doesnt your top su-25 have thermals??
and forgive me but most other russian aircraft never had them
and those that did SHOULD get them

you understand what inequality feels like

but as long as its “THEM” who suffer from it, you dont care

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164

You mean the Ka-50?
Yes, let’s compare the Ka-50’s Shkval to VASTLY superior optics, such as those on the Mi-28, Mi-35M, AH-64, AH-1Z, and so on…
any argument of the Ka-50 is effectively thrown out the window by its horrible tech.

Haven’t checked on it in a while, thank god.

Again, most other nations have 3x the zoom with gen 3 thermals.
What does the Ka-50 have… a failed sensor suite?

Neither is a non-sustained missile that’s expected to pull heavy maneuvers.
The Pantsir’s missile is effectively useless after a simple turn. It’s one of the easiest in the game to dodge because of its horrible energy profile.
Not only does it have a FAR less powerful boost stage than the MIM146, it also entirely lacks a sustainer and is expected to glide that extra 15km.

The Pantsir doesn’t get a smokeless missile… What you’re seeing is the missile entirely devoid of propulsion and gliding.
That first 2.4 seconds is the booster. Past that, there’s nothing else.

That’s more than equality… The R-77 gets stomped by AIM-120s with ease. The direct equal to the 120 would be the 77-1, though that is mostly barred due to its far better guidance properties.

And the Pantsir has the exact same? Its effective range is 7-8km against maneuvering targets, and even then you’d be lucky to hit an F-14 beyond 6km.

It moves far better than a 95Я6. It still has a more powerful motor with an extra second of burn time.

Yes? They do? What about it.

Yes, and what you get out of it is a lack of IRCM, less ammunition, 2 less pylons with no ECM that it had IRL, and far worse azimuth/elevation properties than the Su-25T[M].

MiG-29SMT and Su-27SM did, by use of Sapsan-E and CLDP.

Who is them? Are you trying to hit the forum with the ((())) bullshit?

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unless you got confused yes the ka-50 is what im talking abt

  1. i was talking about the missile
  2. the optics get the job done well enough to be effective

it works, thats all i or you need to consider

the pantsir has auto lead

main point → it CAN

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So a vastly inferior helicopter to a large majority of others…
No IRCM, DISGUSTINGLY bad optics, and a near equal effectiveness to the Mi-35M.

The missile is irrelevant if you cannot find a target, nor reliably track them.

The optics on the Z-9W are better than the Ka-50. To say they get the job done is laughable.

Which does… Nothing? That’s quite possibly the largest detriment of the Pantsir, seeing as it has no sustainment stage and is expected to pull vastly overcompensated maneuvers.

Against a hovering target? Sure. It’d take it a solid 10 seconds to take down a drone.
Against an F-4? Yeah, you’re kidding if you think that this thing is capable of maneuvering with an F-4S.

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ka50 is very good helicopter has been for a long ka50 was so good for so long that it became the basic mesaurment of how good a helicopter was vikhir missiles are crazy optics are not the best no night vison no thermal but they work and can guide the missile effectivily i flew the ka50 been when heli vs heli was a thing

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a f4s can loose to ka50 vikir missile and the laser lock gun system make it great

169

It absolutely does not.

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welcome btw

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only way to beat it is gbu from space with amecan cas

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A good F-16C pilot will never die to Pantsir, and always frag Pantsir.
Pantsir is not “strong” against jets, it’s only strong against drones and helicopters.
Yes, the Soviets finally got ONE CAS equivalent to my NATO CAS.

Your posts can keep defending the Soviet tech tree from valid criticism though.

Pantsir range against my Mirage 2000D: 13 - 14km.
My Mirage 2000D’s range against Pantsir: 16km.

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most pantsir players are braindead so skill issue if u cant dodge

174

you cannot first spawn anymore

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77-1 counter part are AIM-120C-5 or C-7 not AIM120A or B

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at 11.0 its one of the best
with decent optics that get the job done good and quick

tigers dont have that either and theyre at 11.7

thats your own issue tbh, ive made my Bo-105 work and that doesnt have thermals or target tracking

you think gen 1 thermals with burger sized pixels are automatically better??
lmao

and i think youre forgetting it has MAWS… at 11.0

many other helis dont have anything close to such a system much less countermeasures

bruh it literally takes control out of your hands and the work for you

btw the kamov has a 30mm gun with apds which you can reliably take out leopards with by flying around 800m directly above them

we cant do that

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You know what countries have 11.0 ground RB lineups? USA and Japan.
Everyone else is 11.3 or higher, so their “11.0” helicotpers mean nothing when they’re in 11.3 lineups.
With that said, I’m going to address Ka-50 in comparison to the two tech trees that can actually have 11.0 ground RB lineups:
Japan gets AH-64D without a laser warning receiver. Radar, thermals, and 16 AGM-114Ks.
USA gets YAH-64, which just has thermals and 16 AGM-114Bs.
And of course USSR gets Ka-50 for its 11.3 lineup: Worse optics to its competitors, and 12x Vikhr missiles. G, H, I RWR; Can’t see the search radars of FlaRakRad, Pantsir, Roland, TOR-M1, OTOMARIC, ITO-90M, and XM975.
All 3 cannot see any tracking system’s lock except Apache can see the radar lock of TOR-M1 if players are forced to use it.

So, outside the useless RWR on Ka-50, let’s speak about Vikhrs for a moment.
They are beam-riding missiles, which means they can only fire 1 - 2 at a time in quick succession, more if players have COD finger.
They are 8km range missiles against moving targets, 10km range against static targets and from an altitude advantage.
They penetrate 800mm of steel and carry a warhead of 5.7kg-e of explosives; a change from the ~4.5kg-e it was the last time I gathered data.
They go a speed of up to 600m/s.

AGM-114s: 8km range, laser guided which means they can be ripple fired all at once or over the course of the first missile’s guidance time, or longer depending on the situation.
They penetration 1100mm minimum and carry a warhead of at least 8kg-e of explosives.
They go a speed of up to 475m/s.

At 8km, Vikhrs will get there faster…
AGM-114s will penetrate more consistently.
At 4 - 5km both are rather fast to their target.

Ka-50 has the potential of fragging 1 target at a time from further away faster than an Apache pilot that doesn’t ripple fire.
And Apache has the potential to frag multiple targets faster than Ka-50 once they learn ripple firing.

Both are well within the range of all enemy SPAA.
Ka-50 is the only one that cannot detect search radars of a number of SPAAs.
Neither can detect the correct locking procedure of helicopters [use the optical lock].

So its safe to say neither should be used when SPAA is in line of sight of you, and both are deadly to tanks, with Apache having a superior visual system as well as the ability to ripple fire for quick multi-kills when setup in a position.

I will not bring up any 11.3 helicopter despite the fact Ka-50’s only ground lineups are 11.3; the reason is all 11.3 helicopters are so far superior to Ka-50 [and YAH-64] that it’s genuinely unfair to compare it to them.

As for guns; I have only great experience with the Apache’s 30mm and no other helicopter has been as consistent as that for me despite me using them all rather identically.

Holy wall of text… I guess I haven’t done long-form Ka-50 vs everyone else in a while.

TL;DR: Ka-50 is fine at 11.0 and its competitors are equally dangerous at the least.

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as usual you miss the point entirely

next time just ask me for clarification if you need it before you go off on a keyboard warrior rampage

Ka-50 is fine at 11.0, but it still works on 11.7
Ka-50 isnt overteired unlike a certain other helicopter i can name
Ka-50 is russian and exists in the russian air defense bubble while all other aircraft have to face that bubble, and it aint fun if ur not the Kamov

at 11.7…

not the same.

and apparently lack of thermals is a major cope point for kamov players
btw…

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these are definitely not BAD optics

has a damn MAWS man stop the crying, most aircraft cant see the pantsirs radar, so if you can deal with that then no reason you should make a fuss about this one

kamov is 11.0 and apache is 11.7
can face different SPAA if put in their intended lineups

one wont always affect your maximum BR the other will always affect your max BR

kamov also doesnt need a tail…

2200kmph AND ACTUALLY work UNLIKE the shit PARS or Spikes
you can shoot them at which ever part of the tank you want and you can shoot down aircraft with it

equally dangerous (at a higher BR)

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@Armen_Lozone
AH-64DJP is 11.0, not 11.7. Despite you incorrectly stating things three times… 11.0 is not a higher BR than 11.0, which Ka-50 isn’t used in as there’s no 11.0 ground lineup… so in reality 11.0 isn’t a higher BR than 11.3, cause only USA and Japan have 11.0 lineuop options.

The defense bubble is identical for all tech trees [useless for jets, SPAA is OP for all helicopters except the Spike launching ones where both are balanced].

The difference is zero afterburning CAS 11.3 and above are within range of Pantsir when flown properly to begin with.

A Kamov without a tail is a Kamov without weapons.

I don’t play helicopters in ground RB often; they’re super expensive for the lethality they present.
I also don’t spawn jet CAS as much now that I have the 20km achievement for the same reason.
500+ SP for vehicles that will at best give me frags at a fraction of the rate a tank can provide.
Though at least with jet CAS I physically can’t die to anything other than other aircraft.

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If they have cod fingers? So they press it more than twice?

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my mistake i admit

Ka-50 is used from the 10.3 to 11.7 range
meaning it can see those poor 10.3 tanks

no

why?
shooting the tail off doesnt remove weapons unless the new damage models put some stupid weapons computer in the tail

people dont play em for the kills, they play them for the fun
CAS is the reward for good ground players