your fingers too fat you can’t use google , but you can type in latin i see. here i’ll even make the picture larger for you A TIGER 2 CAPTURED IN FRANCE.
Take a good look at it., because i’ve already wasted year arguing with idiots who say no tigers were ever sent west. As a matter of a fact i’lll do one better for you.
File:King Tiger rammed.jpg - Wikimedia Commons The Irish guards Rammed a Tiger 2 and disabled it during Operation GOODWILL, whats operation goodwill? GOOGLE IT.
Its destroyed, yes.
I see no penetration on its UFP.
OP is correct in one thing ,once upon a time tanks in this game had historic pen rates as reported by various tests carried out by USSR/GER/USA/GB…each nation also carried tests on eachothers captured tanks so numbers were accurate .
Then this happened
And after that it was all screwed up
Thank you, someone with a brain who actually researches stuff and look it up.
I remember a lot of crap that happened then others claim it didn’t…
But waybackmachine never lies nor do archives .
Anyone who tells you a 75mm armed Sherman cant pen a PzIV from the front needs to get his brain checked.
Can’t, since crew will shout “Tiger” and start withdrawing :)
Both of these photos are from Northwest France in the summer of 1944. The alleged fight between the Super Pershing and Tiger II took place on 21 April 1945. Believe it or not, troops can be redeployed in the space of 8 months, especially when the Russians have been making progress towards Berlin. “There were no Tiger IIs in the area at that time” does not mean “No Tiger (II)s were ever sent west.”
The documentary says there was no time to examine the tank (so no confirmation of its type). Both photos you provided also seem to use the early version of the turret. The documentary in question makes no effort to consult other historians, the only contributor to the segment is John Irwin himself, as you can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7vthI5MsyY&t=2320s.
This has all been discussed on the old forums, an entire 8 years ago: DUEL AT DESSAU - Historical Discussion - War Thunder - Official Forum
to quote the link you provided: “These configuration methods also facilitate a peculiar kind of “tug of war” in which various sources appear one after another, frequently with contradictory data.” Someone else has already mentioned that this was one of the reasons for the change.
Edit: Also I think you meant Operation Goodwood, not Goodwill.
Precisely, I have no idea where he got from the notion that we claimed that there were no Tiger IIs on the western front…
I specifically said that the nearest Tiger IIs were 120km away from that battlefield. That’s France and that’s west. They just weren’t remotely close to make an engagement possible at that point in time.
To be fair, there are many good reasons why now shells use formulas.
Firstly, there isn’t always historical data available, not for many shells of the hundreds of vehicles we have ingame.
Secondly, at many times, different sources would provide conflicting information. I still remember many endless debates of people ranting and discussing how certain shells should perform depending on the sources they endorsed…
Thirdly, many of the different tests and statements were conducted under different conditions and with different parameters.
All of these factors, and more, made it necessary to implement a fully standardised and uniform method to model shells into the game.
The values provided by the formulas and consistent and the margin of potential error is <5%; the formulas work and are a reliable system compared to the conflicting and chaotic exclusive reliance on potential historical data.
There has been very long debates about what can pen what and people turning up with legit sources that contradicts eachother. So Gaijin implemented formula for pen calculation.
Believe me its better this way. Otherwise this forum would just turn into “I watched this documentary and that guy said…”
It could have been done much better
There is historical data for most inter war and WWII vehicles /Planes since all sides tested each others vehicles/planes …they could have had historical values for those .
Same thing with almost all post WWII stuff ,since fall of USSR researchers have been trawling trough long declassified stuff in each others archives .
Only time calculator (Gaijin one) should have been used is with classified vehicles or those that were made up.
All munition in War Thunder uses formulas made by experts in physics and mathematics.
APBC uses one.
APCR uses another.
APDS uses another.
And APFSDS uses probably the most accurate of them.
This is for fairness and not to give any tech tree unfair treatment based on claims of military/government.
@Axzuel also said it best.
You cannot change the pen of rounds in War Thunder with documentation about pen.
The only things that’ll impact change is mass, velocity, and dimensions of the round.
And if you want to change the forumulas they use:
😂😂😂
Tiger 1 is 5.7 and the other is 6.0 you arent fighting crappy shermans at that BR, and the ones you are you do lolpen from the front with the 88.
Game isnt historical MM
It doesnt, every round should use the same standar.
Also many of the armor test cant be directly used as they dont use the same hardness or quality of armor as the game formula does, so testings with a poorer standard for the armor would result in a unfair advantage.
The formula pretty much eliminates most of the standarization issues.
That penetration document that was posted was dated 1951. Thats hardly 75 years.
There are plenty of original documents from the WW2 era which were preserved, declassified, and published.
The document written on a piece of paper doesnt magically change over time.
You know what does change over time? Peoples memories. heck I could give you a “first hand account” of what I did last tuesday and Id probably get at least half of it wrong. A person fighting in a high stress environment like that, fighting in the fog of war, is highly liable to get some accounts wrong especially when recounting it from memory, and especially when YOU WONT EVEN PROVIDE US WITH THE SOURCE OF YOUR QUOTE. You wont even tell us the episode of the documentary!
You try to insult us by saying we are delusional but you refuse to do the literal bare minimum to support your argument while trying to force us to prove you right, despite the fact the only person here that has any problem with the way things currently are is YOU.
Yet because people here are sometimes frankly too nice for their own good, they have gone out of their way to find actual physical data that could prove or (or disprove) your claim for you, and then patiently attempt to explain it to you, yet you still insult them and stick to the same single tired argument, that you STILL refuse to provide for even the most polite requests for a source.
que all the “pen is calculated by a formula” replies when actual documents show that the penetration values from that calculation are just pulled out of their asses and are about as accurate as the average blind man at archery
The existing formulas are not fair. For special APBCs like T33 and m358, the game does not provide them with APBC calculation formulas, but instead uses ordinary AP formulas to calculate them. Their performance has been treated incorrectly in the game, affecting the vehicles that use them and causing them to lose their unique features
