This discussion focuses on vehicles whose projects were canceled while they were partially built, as well as their role in the game.
I recently started a discussion on another topic, and a point that came up, which I believe would be a good point for discussion, is the question of vehicles that were partially built in real life and whether they could be included in the game. This point caught my attention mainly in relation to some cases of German warplane projects that were partially built but ended up having their projects interrupted, such as the German jet bombers from the end of World War II, for example:
•Junkers EF-132
•Junkers Ju 287 V3
•junkers Ju 287 V4
both were partially built, some were between 60% ~ 70% built and others between 80% ~ 90% built before being captured, destroyed before being captured and so on. This raises the question of whether these projects are eligible to enter the game especially when we think about the issue of the difference between real performance and what was expected from the project. In some cases, we may never know because they were never completed, as is the case with the bombers I mentioned, where we have no way of knowing for sure what bombs they could actually use and what their maximum weight capacity would have been.
Well, I would like to hear your opinion on this specific point and I would also like to hear some examples of vehicles that you know of that have a similar history. I think it would also be great for this discussion to ask our community manager @Smin1080p_WT as I believe it can help in the discussion. smin, how does gaijin treat these types of vehicles that have this specific type of story? is there a difference in criteria between aircraft and tanks in these cases? Should the fact that some of them were not weapon tested in time be a point to be considered?
Both were actually made/semi made so could come ef132 was not made in German or Soviet hands with only mock ups existing
Ju287 would just be a ho 229 or whatever 🤷♀️
Yes, that’s precisely the point. They were partially made, but there’s also the issue that some of them weren’t tested with weaponry, and that’s an important point regarding their inclusion in the game.
I believe that for the gaijin, this isn’t quite the case. We have to take into account that we wouldn’t know the configuration of bombs it would carry, nor its actual payload capacity. This is an important point.
I think it’s uncertain. Remember the Colian anti-aircraft gun? It was also planned to have armament, but that too was removed. Another example is the E-100. Except in the case of the E-100, they didn’t remove it.
The E-100 issue was more a matter of interpretation, and the gaijin acknowledged that. The E-100 had its own turret that wasn’t built before its capture, but among some of the E-100’s sketches there was a drawing of it with a Maus turret. So for some reason they decided to put that turret instead of the original one. In my opinion they should at least re-release it with the original tower
I personally don’t think paper vehicles, or vehicles that never fully existed, should be added to the game. However, I do think that weird/obscure prototypes are good additions, particularly as event vehicles because then the event vehicles are still somewhat desirable and unique while also not locking a real life vehicle that saw service and combat behind a paywall.
If the choice is to add a partially constructed unique vehicle or add yet another copy-paste slop-mobile, the choice should be obvious.
The Coelian is real enough to be added and should be brought back.
The Panther II and KT105 need physical remodeling to at least be physically plausible, as neither currently is regarding their turret designs.
The Panther II needs to use the real long 88 Schmalturm blueprints for its turret design so the breech and its recoil stroke can actually fit the turret.
The KT105 needs a widened turret ring and an enlarged version of the existing turret to properly fit the recoil stroke of the 105mm gun.
The British old event vehicle D.521 has a 20mm Hispano 404 motorcannon firing through a Merlin engine physically incapable of allowing such - instead that plane should be remodeled with two 20mm guns akin to the MB.152C1. It’s technically a fake vehicle but we may as well make it physically plausible.
The R2Y2s are all fake vehicles, but at least those are physically plausible.
The Ho-Ri Prototype is a fake vehicle, but it is at least physically plausible. The Production model should see its engine changed to the same one the Prototype has with a huge drop in its BR to probably 6.7 at absolute most. That 1100hp engine is not physically possible.
There are a bunch of other semi-completed machines I want to see added, too.
Ju-287 bombers
Ki-91: 4-engine prop bomber with 12x20mm cannons, 70% completed before destroyed in a bombing raid.
Separate the Bf-109Z into the Z-0 (a twinned F-4) and the Z-1 (a planned twinned K-4), the current WT model has traits of both and is worse than both in most respects. As the existing plane is physically closer to the Z-0 that was actually built, change that one into the proper Z-0 and add the Z-1 as a separate vehicle.
P.30 series of heavy tanks for Italy, because it was made as a mockup and Italy has no domestic alternatives to fill said gaps. Add four variants with the same armor model and engine (save for the last one using a Panther 700hp engine) with different guns - a 75/34, a 105/25, a 75/46, and a 90/53-armed model, at appropriate BRs.
Ki-201 Karyu
J7W2
Ca.183bis
Really there are a ton of things I want to see added.
It’s already grandfathered-into the game, so we may as well let people actually research and use the damn thing. The component hull existed, as did the guns, and the physical shape of the turret was known via mockup. Like I said - it’s real enough and its already in the game.
I wouldn’t even mind adding the alternate armament Coelian with the single 55mm gun, either. Hull is a standard Panther, gun was made and tested, and we have enough drawings to know what the turret would look like. Better slightly fake than copy-paste any day of the week.
I am against full napkin drawings of stuff that had no parts laid down or actually built, unless its something that the game already has such as the Panther II, KT105, D.521, and Ho-Ri Prototype/Production - in which case all those need remodeling to be physically possible, then get re-released into the game.
