The stabilized T-34s were built
Also this tank can also be given to the Soviets.
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As it is a German modification, it should bei either German only or both as seen w the beutepanzer controversy and joint dev controversy with the french
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It would be both obviously, the only nation to document it was the Soviets, it even got its own paint job so there won’t be issues there.
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good for sim players
Wdym by “near-fictional”? Afiak, the stabilized T-34-85 was very much so a thing.
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it never worked
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Lol. How quickly the denying pivots.
- “Not real.”
- Evidence
- “Okay, it’s real but it didn’t work.”
There’s a 76mm stab version too. The Soviets wanted to have them fitted to production vehicles, then well, the Germans invaded.
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If showing great promise during trials tells you it didn’t work then we can’t help you.
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Here are what I found on SU-88 so far.
From the footage, SU-88 was painted with a German iron cross insignia, repainted with German camouflage (together with the gun), and a penetration hole is visible on the left side of the gun shield. This indicated that SU-88 was pushed and damaged in combat. Because the SU-88 has frontal bulges and a box-shaped cupola, we can tell that it was originally a SU-85 rather than a SU-85M or SU-100. Given that only the gun tube was altered, while the gun shield remained unchanged, the D-5S recoil system would most likely remain intact, but its gun breech would be bored out to fire German 88 mm shells.
The penetration hole on the left side of the gun shield
Side shot of SU-88:
Why was it not rearmed with an 85 mm 52-K gun tube?
Firstly, there was only a German document indicating that they successfully installed an 85/88 mm Flak(r) gun onto one of the eight captured Soviet AFV(7 T-34 and 1 Soviet StuG), and planned to convert the rest later.
the said document.
Secondly, the SU-88's gun had a straight built-up gun step that no other Soviet tapered 85 mm guns had. Therefore, Germans did not just replace or boring out the D-5S gun tubes with captured Soviet 85 mm gun tubes. They converted the 85 mm gun to 88 mm through the Umgeseelt method.
D-5S
KS-12
KS-12A
Finally, according to “Documents of the Quartermaster General of Army Group Courland: Organizational charts of the Army Group’s supply units and the subordinate AOK and associations, etc. ”, there was no Soviet 85 mm ammunition in any unit’s or any stockpile’s inventory.
Germans repaired the vehicle, replaced the gun, repainted it with German camouflage and insignia, and most probably pushed it into battle. Logistically, the probability that they rearmed the SU-88 with an 85 mm gun that they had no 85 mm ammunition to fire was close to zero.
…
SU-88 in German Service
On 31 March 1945, HArko 315 sent AOK 16 a telegram titled 8.8 cm Flak Windau, stating: The army had 8 captured tanks (T-34s and a Russian assault gun) at its disposal, which were to be prepared for deployment. The only caliber for which sufficient ammunition was available was the 8.5/8.8 cm Flak (r) of Infantry-employed Army Artillery Battalion 910. The Commander-in-Chief, Colonel General von Vietinghoff, after a briefing by the anti-tank staff officer (Stopak), ordered that the installation be carried out as quickly as possible. Subsequently, the army carried out an installation and firing trial at Tank Workshop Company 925 in Libau, which was completed. The remaining guns are on their way to Libau.
Translation credited to pureSkyrim
According to the newsreel footage “Padomju Latvija Nr. ⅚”, the SU-88 was set with other inoperable AFVs.It is very likely that it was one of the assault guns lost in the Sixth Battle of Courland Pocket.
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Will you be making a separate suggestion for SU-88?
Seems like it deserves one after this research.
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What about the Su-88
this is a discovery and a half ill tell you that
New suggestion post takes time to be reviewed and approved. That is why I post my historical findings of the SU-88 here first.
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Good job on the research. Looks like we have the 88 brothers almost confirmed to have been fielded at some point.
The T-34-88 is a unique German modification, doesn’t need to go to USSR. It wasn’t modded by them nor see any action by them. Though how they have obsessive compulsion disorder when adding anything russia got it’s hands on, wouldn’t be surprised.
The stabilized 85 also could’ve easily been a premium so it’s not as common to come across seen as it’s a prototype only.
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I disagree, T-34 K20 should be a premium for the USSR as for Germany it can also be received as a premium as it only makes sense.
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Respectfully, that outlook on vehicles makes for a very shallow game.
The only production vehicle that could’ve been featured in-between T-34-85 and T-44 is a Cold War T-34-85 with HEAT-FS. Personally I would’ve preferred T-34-85M over the STP but the point is that the options were limited.
This game has the opportunity to represent so many vehicles in detail that no other game can compare to yet, why not feature rare prototypes and obscure conversions where-ever feasible? While I agree some should be premiums, some should also be tech-tree where it makes sense. e.g. the 5.7-6.7 gap between USSR mediums.
I don’t see why K20 shouldn’t be avaliable for USSR. They knowingly operated it with a 8,8cm for several months.
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PS1: Any German Speaker reading this, please help me verify.
PS2: There is a slight translation error; the document actually said the German only did one successful firing trial at the time of this report, and further conversions were planned once the guns arrived. The document only confirms one completed conversion.- credit to pureSkyrim
The telegram I previously posted seems to be a report that literally stated that the Germans installed 8,5/8,8 Flak (r) guns on captured T-34s and Soviet StuGs (SU-85).
Here is the original text that I OCR from the image:
- Der Armee standen 8 Beutepanzer (T34 u. russ. Stu.Gesch.) zur Verfügung, die für den Einsatz hergerichtet werden sollten. Als einziges Kaliber mit ausreichender Munition kamen nur die 8,5/8,8 Flak (r) der infant. eingesetzten Heer. Art. Abt. 910 in Frage, Der Oberbefehlshaber, Gen.-Oberst v. Vietinghoff, hatte nach Vortrag durch den Stopak angeordnet, daß der Einbau beschleunigt durchzuführen sei. Es wurde daraufhin durch die Armee in der Pz.-Werkstatt-Kp. 926 in Libau ein Einbau- und Schießversuch durchgeführt, der erfolgreich verlaufen ist. Die restlichen Geschütze befinden sich auf dem Wege nach Iibau.
Here is the translated text:
- The army had 8 captured tanks (T-34s and Russian assault guns) at its disposal, which were to be prepared for deployment. The only caliber with sufficient ammunition that could be used was the 8.5/8.8 cm Flak (r) of Army Artillery Battalion 910, which was employed with the infantry. The Commander-in-Chief, Colonel General von Vietinghoff, after a briefing by the anti-tank staff officer, ordered that the installation be carried out as quickly as possible. The army then had the installation and firing trials carried out by Tank Workshop Company 926 in Libau, and these were successfully completed. The remaining guns are on their way to Libau.
Here is the link to said document
If the OCR and AI translation were correct, that would seem to be the German first-hand definitive proof that both the T-34-88 and the SU-88 were real.
Sorry, I couldn’t realize it earlier or fact-check what was written in the telegram myself, as I don’t speak German.
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The translation is correct, yes.
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Thank you very much, the existence of both SU-88 and T-34-85 are now 100% confirm.
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Wow, in Libau. Makes this quote all that more credible.
“There was an interesting unit in Kurland; Panzerbrigade Kurland. And they only had captured tanks. They had a Sherman and a General Lee and two T-34s. They took the Russian 87mm guns out and took it to the ship wharf and reamed it out to 88. They shot 88 ammunition out of it. They were very inventive! Because up in Kurland, your back was against water, you know.”
This is a statement by Wolfgang Kloth during an interview. (Ctrl+F for water and go to the 3/3 result) He was a German tank commander serving on the Russian front from 1943 until the end of the war.
It would seem Wolfgang may have seen the very tank we see here.
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