The 9M331 and 95Ya6 (going off of the datamine) have almost the same PID values ([0.0126, 0.0, 0.0014] for 9M331 and [0.0121, 0.0, 0.0001]) so it is not the flight controller that is making the 9M331 (significantly) better. Two other values that influence missile performance are crossDistToReqCrossVelMult and velDiffToReqAccelMult, where the Pantsir’s values are lower (so the flight controller is active more often and therefore more accurate).
The TOR-M1 does have a higher reqCrossVelRationMax of 0.85 (compared to the Pantsir’s 0.65), but I am unsure on what they mean by “Ration,” so I wouldn’t be able to tell you if that is an advantage for the TOR-M1. The only other value that benefits the TOR-M1 is the reqAccelMax within accelControl and it receiving a second value for the accelControlIntgLim within accelControl (which I am interpreting to be meaning the PID controller for the 9M331 has integral windup, which is a good thing but can’t be sure how good without the equation).
Without finding the file where the equation for their combined crossDistToReqCrossVelMult, reqCrossVelRationMax, velDiffToReqAccelMult, and accelControl is stored what you’re saying is conjecture.
Anyways I’ve spent far too much time trying to look up these files, but overall the Pantsir does seem to have an edge in terms of how active the flight controller is whereas the TOR-M1 has a higher G limit (but we can’t know what how much these factors matter without the equation).
Yes, a straight target. You turn on spawn and you can’t get hit, which leads you to close the distance & meme over Pantsirs for the entire match watching them rage at not hitting you.
It’s not defensive, cause I’m not maneuvering when going mach 1 slightly perpendicular to the Pantsir.
Defensive means you maneuver.
VT-1 has better paper stats, and should be fixed in practice since a few months ago but I haven’t been able to check.
Ignoring the rest because you’re never going to admit you’re wrong and/or lying. No, it doesn’t lmao.
The 95Ya6 is faster, goes further, has slightly more explosive, has a better proximity fuse, and can be launched without RWR warning.
What does the VT-1 do better other than having 50g over the Pantsir 32g? Nothing. Especially considering it’s a value that doesn’t matter because the Pantsir can intercept you just as easily within FlakRad maximum range with its 32g overload.
So once again, please explain in more details rather than flat out lies why is the FlakRad somehow more effective or even on par with the Pantsir in your mind.
@CyrusJackson
Dude, the only Pantsir missile that killed me is one that I let kill me.
I have a 100% survival rate against hundreds of Pantsir missiles because I took the time & learned in custom matches.
I shared that survival information here.
Its up to you if you want to listen & win against Pantsirs 100% of the time or don’t listen and continue coping.
Also only FlaRakRad out of the two secured a kill against me doing my standard maneuvers this entire year, a singular kill.
Pantsir got its kill when I let it kill me [I was going 600KPH intentionally low waiting for a SPAA to kill me, so happened to be a Pantsir].
So yeah, Pantsir and FlaRakRad are equally useless against CAS to me.
Neither have a kill rate against a barely semi-competent CAS player cause they can’t even score multiple kills in an entire year.
2S6 has more kills than them partially cause I’m more reckless at 11.0 flat and the CAS is weaker than the stuff at 11.3 up.
That’s not an anecdote, that’s science.
I get that you feel the need to defend Pantsir and all Russian equipment, but that’s not reality.
As for your previous post.
I don’t want FlaRakRad cause it’d just slow my progress toward 2A7V, and I only have Pantsir cause I ran out of Soviet vehicles to get in the middle of 2023.
SPAA is currently useless outside TOR-M1 unless ITO-90M players prove me wrong.
Nobody cares about how bla bla bla your survival rate i can do it too but pantsir still have lot of advantage over other and noboy care about how suffering pantsir is yeah pantsir better than Italy and israel SPAA and alot of AA in the game
So you ignored entirely what I asked of you and you now call skill issue.
My question was easy though, you say the FlakRad is better than the Pantsir, I asked you why and your reason is because a FlakRad killed you once?
And I am the one coping lmao? The FlakRad is flaming garbage when compared to the Pantsir and you’re the only one coping about getting killed by this trash AA truck. And as Simba said, Anecdotal evidence is not valid proof.
I never said FlaRakRad is better than Pantsir.
Please don’t push strawmen onto others.
It’s up to you to prove your own strawman fallacies, not us.
There are no anecdotes present in this topic. Science isn’t anecdotal.
And you’re more than welcome to 1v1 me Pantsir vs CAS.
CAS will always win when flown semi-competently.
You going to respond to me pulling out the game code to prove that there is no way to know if the average G’s of the Pantsir and TOR-M1 are drastically different? Cause you know that would mean the one possible advantage the TOR-M1 has doesn’t exist
Spaa has more jobs than trying to kill fighter jets. You have a job to defend your airspace and your team and to prevent enemy attacks, including helicopters and any type of missile from penetrating the airspace. A flarakrad has only 2 missiles availabe to launch at a time, so any jet firing more than 2 missiles is going to have missiles go through. The pantsir is able to defend their team not only with the large amount of ready availabe missiles but also with guns which is a clear advantange over flarakrad.
This also applies to helicopter’s engaging the spaa. While a pantsir is able to consistenly defend itself against missiles fired by helicopters and return fire, flarakrad does not have this capability. Pantsir is able to continue firing missiles without the engagement being disturbed by reload in a multiple hostile situation whereas flarakrad can’t. No rwr warning is also a clear benefit wether you try to deny it.
Pantsir also has a better self defense capability against ground vehicles due to guns and again, large amount of ready to fire missiles. The better radar adds to a better situational awaraness, lack of rwr warning takes away from situational awaraness of hostiles. No humans are perfect, when you have your rwr being pinged by a hostile sam, you will be reminded about it. When that does not happen and you are not reminded, that spaa has an edge against you, especially if you otherwise lose attention due to flying in contested airspace. Pantsir’s long range capability also adds to the scare area effect where you need to have a constricted way of flying. You can’t fly towards the battlefield, even if there is a hostile fighter coming from that direction which gives an advantange to the hostile jet. You can’t engage it due to pantsir’s superior range.
There are so many different situations on the battlefield where all of the pantsir’s power combine to give advantange. Top tier is not only ‘‘jets flying mach 1, can’t kill’’. Your air defense system gives clear edge to your friendly jets and tanks on the ground by defending them against engagement which in turns helps your team kill the hostile jets that you can’t kill. You’re likely going to be ignorant and make your non sense biased claims after this comment instead of accepting these facts as given. You can read more about your problems in here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
In a combined arms contested battlefield, what matters is not a single G limit of a missile. It is your air defense system’s all combined capabilities being used together to have a greater effect on the battlefield.
The average G of TOR-M1 is higher than the peak G of Pantsir.
Dataminers discovered this and put it in a google doc somewhere.
I know, your precious Pantsir isn’t as good as you thought it was.
It can’t kill aircraft flown by semi-seasoned CAS players, it’s as useless as FlaRakRad was [and possibly still is].
Pantsir going faster means it turns less by the way.
Cause the faster something goes the higher the Gs on a same rate of turn.
10Gs at mach 2 is 20Gs at a higher speed.
Pantsir pulls 30Gs peak, but because it goes faster it turns worse than TOR-M1’s missiles.
Which is why I said speed isn’t everything.
It might be one of the reasons I’ve heard hundreds of missiles pass nearby without ever dying.
Pantsir has never defended ground or air targets against other aircraft flown by any remotely skilled player.
Ya’ll defend Soviets more than most here.
And you have no evidence to back up your defense of Pantsir.
Paper stats & hypothesis’ mean nothing if it’s as useless as FlaRakRad in actual combat.
I’ve been killing Pantsirs from release to present. Easiest SPAA to kill in War Thunder cause they’re large and common.
Where lol, I sure didn’t see any value in the missile code in the datamine referencing an average acceleration.
Yes, this is why people should try to maneuver more when the missile is at lower speeds, what does this have to do with whether or not one vehicle is better than another?
Same thing as above, you’re saying that the issue with the Pantsir is user error as they are not maneuvering enough at low speeds and predicting a CAS plane’s flight path. Saying Pantsir users have a skill issue and therefore Russia should get the TOR-M1 isn’t as great of an argument as you think it is.
Pantsir is bad? oh did you forget that it was Pantsir that fail to intercept slow flying storm shadow ofc it supposed be bad it according to real combat record.
There is legitimately no point debating with this person as he is not debating. He is simply broadcasting his opinion without taking anything else into consideration. His words already prove confirmation bias, and when i stated that anedoctal evidence is not proof of effectiveness of a specfiicc system, that was ignored too.
Confirmation bias is where someone ignores everything that disproves their opinion, while spouting anything that confirms it, even if it is not reasonable evidence.
