Panthers BR: too high?

When you compare the Panther A/G/F to all their peers in the tech tree, they don’t compare well. To make some comparisons:

Tiger H1, firepower: The Panther has better pen and velocity, though this benefit is marginal considering WT is mostly CQC, and the extra pen doesn’t usually make a massive difference, e.g. it’s possible to pen a jumbo UFP, but in practice unlikely. On the other hand, the Tiger has significantly better HE filler and post-pen damage, in comparison to the Panther which has little and is has somewhat of a slow reload in relation to the damage it can do.

Armour: The Tiger has a better armour layout, with significantly better side armour, and double the turret armour, meaning the Tiger is far better in hull-down positions. While the Panther has a better UFP, the Tiger can simple angle to get similar protection. The Panther only really has better armour against frontal threats that you haven’t seen, hence haven’t angled against, which isn’t that common, while the Tiger is far more survivable in any other situation.

Mobility: The Panther isn’t significantly faster than the Tiger. On the other hand, the Tiger is significantly more agile, with significantly faster track traverse and reverse speed. This is a massive advantage as it takes simply ages for the Panther to reposition and means you can use “peek-a-boo” gameplay.

Gun Handling: The Panther has better turret traverse, and is more stable on the move, though this is a minor advantage and only applicable on flat ground.

Other: The Panther gets a roof MG.

Overall, these two are have advantages and disadvantages, but are similar in overall strength, so they should be the same BR at 5.7. The Panther has some advantages in some areas but the Tiger has big advantages in agility and survivability.

Tiger E: Same as the Tiger except it has a roof MG and lacks the massive cupola weakspot which both the Panther and Tiger h1 have, which means it’s basically immune to small-calibre guns from the front. Clearly it should be higher BR than both the Tiger H1 and the Panther which has big weakspots that you can’t get rid of.

Panther D: The later Panthers get a big advantage in turret traverse as well as some other bells and whistles like slightly better side armour, better zoom and roof MGs. However, the benefits are partially counteracted by a big decrease in mobility, which hurts even more as the later Panthers are not effective frontally at the BR they play at - so they need to flank. This decrease in mobility hurts their flanking potential and means they often can’t get into favourable positions before US light tanks. Meanwhile, the Panther D and VK can be effective at even 6.7 by getting into favourable spots early and using its high velocity gun which can pen the side armour of most tanks. The later Panthers should be higher BR because they get one big advantage and a few smaller advantages in exchange for one major disadvantage, but probably not 2 BRs.

PZIV/70: The PZIV/70 is a casemate which is a big disadvantage, but this is made up for by having a significantly better armour profile - essentially no frontal weakspots, along with a far smaller profile which makes it less likely to be hit in the first place. It should be the same BR as the Panthers.

So in conclusion, Panthers feel more like 5.7 tanks than 6.0 tanks. You could make an argument for the Panther F to be 6.0 since it has a rangefinder, better zoom and better side armour, but it seems like the G and especially A make more sense at 5.7

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No the Panther is fine at 6.0. It is one of the core components for arguably the best 6.0 lineup in the game. That being France 6.0.

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Yeah it was better before they jacked it all to 6BR .Now we have to endure 7BR.
It was fine for over 2 years ,why bother changing it?

Very likely related to the fact they bumped 7.0/7.3/7.7 and 8.3 area up by 0.3.

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You didn’t rebut anything I said. Also it’s not really the case. 6.0 gets zero light tanks, is always up against light tanks and CAS spam, and also US heavy tanks like the T34 and T28 that are basically invulnerable to most German guns except for tiny weakpsots that don’t work half the time even when you hit them. I’ve even had them bounce Jagdtiger rounds on multiple occasions.

why bump anything unless its new? If anything, USA needs to come down by 0.3 BR . Too much at 6.3 that should be 6 and stuff at 6.7 that should be 6.3

The stuff at 6.3 is having a good battle with German stuff at 5.7-6 never mind 7BR.

I judge on what I see in the game not some silly stat based nonsense.

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Whole WW2 meets Cold war is just a mess as far as I can see. Game plays in such a chaotic way compared to WW2 vs WW2.

is that a suggestion of historical matchmaking?

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Its a suggestion of a game feeling right at one point and feeling off in another.

I have no real issues in lower BR (I do have issues win some areas, but I can live with it and do) I just feel there is something off about WW2 meeting Cold war in that 6-8 BR area.

Does that make any sense? Its hard for me to articulate but its a very unsettled area of the game both in ground and Air.

I agree it’s not fun for gameplay.

Not as bad as 6.7 when everything can pen you at 1200m with HEATFS while you are chugging along at 20km/h with heavy armour that does nothing. When you get full uptiers on maps like large fields of poland it’s borderline unplayable, you get strafed before you even get to the battlefield and then you get OHK’d in some cold war light tank that goes 60 km/h that can immediately get to the best positions overlooking the entire battlefield.

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That is exactly what I mean .Thankyou

6.0 you get the ELC Bis. Which is basically a light tank.

And France also gets the best 6.0 CAS.

In all that the Dauphiné does perfectly fine being a core component of the lineup. And i dont dispute anything you say, as despite what you say the Panther has all the tools it needs to deal with most 7.0 tanks just fine.

Because thats how balancing works. They bumped a bunch of vehicles just in range of the 5.7 Panther and Tiger. As a consequence they saw the Panther and Tiger performing such that they raised BR.

When attempting to decompress, BRs will shift.

It doesnt work though does? It just cause a nuisance and complaints. Line ups get trashed and vehicles have no use anymore as they often end up lonely and pointless. Like the French DCA now at 5.0 pointless and alone and just to chase a statistic.

Gameplay ruined for stats

I mean if you are fine with overpowered vehicles for a given BR, but the goal is to have balanced opponents for a given BR. You can allways bring a vehicle higher, like bringing the DCA to 6.0 (a place its does just fine), but i wouldn’t place it at BR 6.0 as you shpuld allow people to bring it lower.

It does leopard 40/70 moved up because it was too good as a light tank, DCA moves up for the same reason. People just get annoyed when good vehicles move up.

Its for the most part an annoyance having to rework a lineup.

I think I have only ever gotten a full down tier in my French Panther literally once. The thing basically exclusively plays at 6.7 where it is just not that good.

I see new vehicles being op but why would a vehicle suddenly be OP after 3 years?

Didn’t you get like 3 - 6 nukes in a single day using Panthers?

@EddieVanHalo
AMX-13 DCA and Leopard 40/70 are perfectly fine at their BRs.

Well would you look at that, i allready answered why it could possibly be the case:

Not sure ive dropped that many, but i have had score amounting to that 4 times in a day while dropping 2 nukes using France 6.0.

Where ELC Bis, Panther Dauphiné, AMX 13 DCA (very important as its a low cost light tank and good spaa) and Corsair are the main components.