Maybe. Though i dont think we should have had the Tornado Gr1 along side the Mig29 or F16. I think it should have been the Tornado F3 with stage 2 radar, but it was very delayed
So was a large number of things if you view it that way, but wishing it came when it would have been better than most things is also kind of silly. It’s here, enjoy it. Everyone knew how badly it was going to perform from the start but it’s overly glorified as usual. Same issue as Mirage F1.
Either way… i hope we get aim 9m and amraam on the f3 sooner rather than later or atleast shar fa2 with both
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Soon™
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Fingers crossed
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Anyway, whats going on with this F3?
Outboard wing pylons and what is it carrying underneath?
Or is it some kind of Frankenstein doctored image?
Tornado F3 CSP with ASRAAM & AIM-120B AMRAAM and Sea Harrier FA2 ?
Alarm, that’s an EF.3
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Modified F.3 (also called EF.3), carrying 2 ALARM underneath. Phimat pod on the right wing(I think), Sky Shadow ECM on the left wing.
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The ECM pod is the “TRD” not the Sky Shadow.
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In this case it’s probably a Boz drill/training pod to simulate the wing load of the Ariel towed radar decoy rather than the genuine article, since the rear end is faired over and all the missiles have blue inert/dummy bands on them.
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Thx for correcting me guys :)
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I wonder if Gaijin will ever implement towed decoys…
So just had another match with 6/8 failure on weapons fired. Luckily I did actually get the kill in the end because the Mig-29 was engaged with an F-16 and I was able to spin around and fire off a 9L that he didnt see. But heres the clip (Will be HD in a bit, just processing)
SF1: Self-destructs after launch
9L:1 Runs short, but takes a highly erractic flight path
SF2: Goes for a tree
SF3: Decides it needs a vacation
9L2: Goes for flare
SF4: Straight up misses
That pretty much sums up my usual experience at the moment. A few of those I get, not at all surprised about the 9Ls in this, but I have no explanation for why SF2 or 3 failed nor do I completely understand how SF4 straight up misses.
Combine that clip with this one
Where I could barely get my radar to stay locked onto a Mirage in the open and I think you can start to see where some of my frustration comes from
I’ll keep getting clips as best as I can. Try and figure out why I have such an appaling success rate. I know im making mistakes, but I just dont know what I can do differently. Though I do know I probably need to be more patient between firing missiles. but I’d rather spam, get the kill and RTB, than not fire and get shot down.
My analysis of the video.
Spoiler
SF1: Failure (0:18 seconds)
Hits or proxies on a tree from extreme low altitude…
9L1: Failure (0:25 seconds)
Target appears tail aspect to me here, there is also a second target passing over the original. In this situation at near max kinematic range for the missile it was struggling to determine which heat source to track.
SF2: Failure (0:32 seconds)
Target at this was point was locked from mostly side / rear aspect, low altitude. The missile likely struggled to track through this but admittedly it was performing rather poorly. I would not have made that shot.
SF3: Failure (0:39 seconds)
Again, the target is erratically maneuvering in and out of side / rear aspect. He could easily drop chaff and fool the missile from this position as necessary. You are low altitude. I would never have made any of these shots with the way war thunder models radars currently. I don’t think this issue is solely an issue with the Skyflash or Tornado, I wouldn’t expect ANY SARH in-game to hit that to be quite honest.
9L2: Failure (0:44 seconds)
Obviously we can see at this range and time that the target has been using countermeasures. This is clear to me that he may have been chaffing off missiles prior to this and explains some of the behavior seen on top of the aforementioned issues with side / rear aspect maneuvering targets.
SF4: Failure (0:47 seconds)
Clearly the target is side aspect, pulling towards you and chaffing. The missile at the angle it stops tracking is notched and unable to ascertain target through the countermeasures / notch angle. This is expected behavior.
Conclusion:
Not a single thing in that first video was particularly unusual, except the part where you spammed off 6/8 of your missiles in less than opportune circumstances within a timespan of 29 seconds. @Morvran
Secondary clip / video analysis.
Spoiler
In the second video you moved your nose with vertical elevation locked, the target was lost from view momentarily and prevented a lock because the area you were trying to lock vertically no longer had the target. Then, when you did lock him you hardly looked up or lead the target to shoot. By the time the missile was able to curve up the target was perpendicular and within notch sector (if it would have been able to even hit in the first place). Also, at this point there were several fast moving targets of which some where teammates in the area traveling a similar direction and speed to target. I would not have made this launch as it was asking for a teamkill. The radar lost lock because you were in TRK PD HDN and the target ended up perpendicular enough to enter the notch sector of the radar as you pitched up towards him. This is all expected behavior of the radar and missile.
Is the Stage 2 not suppose to automatically swap between PD/SRC to maintain lock under those conditions?
As for the rest of it, what could I have reaslistcally done differently though?
The average alt for SB is less than 300ft and obviously its impossible for the F3 to turn fight. So short of, “dont fly the F3”, what else can be done. That scenario in the first clip is what 99% of my encounter are like in SB.
So how would you have engaged that Mig-29 differently?
In SB you can’t sit at any kind of alt, especially vs something like Mig-29s which can out run you, out climb you and out turn you. At any alt.
I cant turn fight, as the Mig-29 and F-16 can easily get behind you, no matter what you do
So in that scenario, my only option is to try and get a lock on the distracted Mig-29, and score a kill that way, which is what I did in the end after this clip. Disengage, get some space, head back in again. But if Skyflash isnt usable at all in that scenario, which is what I take away from that analysis. Then what else is left?
So is there anything I could have done differently, or should I just give up, consider the F3 unplayable and stick with bombing bases in the Gr1
Compilation of F3 not working in SB
Terrible map for the F3, but great map if you want to get lots of clips of the F3 radar / Skyflash not working in a short period of time. Again you can see what 99% of encounter in SB are like. The max alt is literally 150ft-300ft most of the time
My experience so far:
F3 doesnt work in head-on jousting fights, because it can’t track/hit something below 300ft
F3 doesnt work in turn fights, because it has double the turning radius of the Mig-29 and F-16, at minimum
The radar struggles when there is multiple targets, so coming to the aid of a teammate is problematic, and if there are 2 targets engaged in a turn fight, like say, a Mig-29 and F-16 in the first clip. Then Skyflash dont work because they cant track right and the radar doesnt work right because it cant seperate the targets.
So what is actually left for the F3? Its pretty clear why I have NEVER seen another player in the Tonrado F3 past the first week since it was added
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I don’t have the Tornado, I could grind the Italian model out this weekend potentially and try it out but I don’t see the point. Truly the best course of action I think for you is to get a wingman and go AIM-9L slinging. Carry the Skyflash as well but I’d only be using those in head-on scenarios.
I was testing some options with the F-14 vs MiG-29 and it seems it’s possible to go heads up with them and with a little effort, shoot down the R-27ER with your AIM-9L before switching to the AIM-7F and firing a SARH at the MiG-29… Scored a lot of kills like this in customs.
As far as the radar goes, I’m only speaking to my knowledge of how “PD HDN” radars work in war thunder as of currently. I don’t know anything about the Tornados radar but it looks like it’s pretty effective and didn’t drop lock where anything else wouldn’t have also.
Italian ADV has the big advantage of being “significantly” lower in BR, which i think is where the F3 needs to go, and fingers crossed will go, but yeah, thats my same conclusion. I think my best bet is stick with the Gr1 or Gr7 until it gets some buffs or gets replaced. Though will be curious to see what Gunjob says. hes got quite a bit of experience in the F3
The Radar does seem reasonable good at maintaining a lock, but cant actually guide a BVR onto said target most of the time. Though does have some wierdness, which Im fairly certain is just me (user error) where I point my radar at a target I can clearly see, and in no mode will it detect the target, its kinda wierd and random. Need to try and get a clip of it.
I have managed to shoot down 9Ls before, but the issue I find is actually getting the 9L to lock onto what you want it too. Mostly done it in the Gr7. I actually want to get some screenshots, and maybe try and get a clip of it, but I dont think the Bore-sight on the 9Ls is actually aligned right in the cockpit, feels like its a little low