the only place i think the USA suffers for air is in outright turnfighters, everything else is brilliant.
Brilliant only if: you climb to at least 15k ft (especially against yak 3s) at which when you arrive everyone is on the ground or your whole team is dead.
Gaijin has made this an esports game with vehicle skins. To use US WWII planes as generally historically implemented, you’d need air spawns. The issue I have is that everyone claims US players are bad when gaijins game design actively works against the design and purpose of the aircraft in general.
3500m altitude isnt that high tho and youre a fool to not sideclimb to that altuitude in 80% of the aircraft roster for props
no, gonna be honest from you saying that about a mustang i think the issue is much more about skill than the airframe
lmfao Esports ready
once again no. Planes dont conjure into existence in the sky. they scramble from their airfield
Come play air sim. You don’t need HOTAS or headtracking. Makes american planes far more viable and fun.
WT Live // Controls by RunaDacino control layout to give it a try with MnK. But first, go watch the principles of flight tutorial by the BFM library guy Requiem (key concepts: Adverse Yaw & Proverse roll (aka: Yaw-roll coupling), Left-turning tendencies, upright & inverted stall recovery, Falling Leaf maneuver (to practice rudder input) and the notion of “Coordinated Flight” and wingstalls) and also give WingalingDragon’s own tutorials on trimming and other setups a try.
Think Perc was making fun of the “Buff X/Y nation suffers” type posts.
Fair point, but it does correlate with my own experience both using and fighting corsairs - those things can hold their own even in a flat circle against later 109s while Mustangs need a ton of speed. Granted, I never really fight above 4 km altitude so I’ll have to test stuff later today or tomorrow.
Having to climb to 20000ft already takes 5 and a half minutes in the D10. Most of everyone is either dead or on their way there.
Correct! They took off from airfields HUNDREDS of miles away. In WarThunder Gaijin forces a long range bomber escort / high altitude air superiority fighter to spawn on the ground within 30nm of the enemy. You’re hilarious if you think that’s good design especially considering the climbing meta of the game.
I do play air sim, I have both VR and track IR. It’s only good in DCS because the planes actually handle properly.
In WarThunder everything is still based on RB flight models just without instructor. So naturally people can just jam negative elevator and spin and jerk with very little consequence. So even as a sim experience it’s still too arcady
Just checking back on CatWerfer’s stuff… who did a much more thorough test of way more aircraft than I did (at sea level, or close it it, iirc). He’s got a plot with the F4U-4 against the P-51D-5 from which I note:
- the D-5 out rates the Corsair at every speed above 325 kph and rates with it below that.
- the F4U-4 has marginally better sustained rate, at a slightly higher speed, and better SEP
The F4U-4 in CW’s test had a sustained of ~ 20 deg/s and max instantaneous of ~26 deg/s. His testing of the D-10, while not plotted against the Corsair directly, also has it at ~20 deg/s sustained and a max instantaneous of ~32 deg/s. The Corsair seems to be marginally faster sustained. The D-30 had a slightly better sustained (just north of 20 deg/s instead of just south of it).
I think I will test at sea level as well just to see if it’s all down to control input issues or if altitude is really playing that large a factor.
ETA: did a low alt test on the Corsair and D-10 and my results tracked CW’s. Both sustained about 20 deg/s, the Corsair with a little more speed. Max instantaneous was ~31 deg/s for the 'Stang and ~25 deg/s for the Corsair. I’m not ready to completely rule out control mode, but altitude does appear to have a LARGE impact.
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Somehow this pretty much only happens when they’re in the USA tree. Other nations do just fine with the same aircraft - italy greatly benefitted from P-47D, france with P-63C, china’s P-38L is unbelievably strong for 4.7 and the other USA planes round out the tree nicely at BRs where they don’t have much else.
Then there’s all the premiums in other trees that provide alternative gameplay.
P-51D-30 is still one of the best 5.0 props, only held back by horrible teams.
P47D is an exception, p63 is a low altitude fighter, p38s generally get an air spawn so thanks for proving my point. The US obviously has a more fair of a time when there are more p38s on the team Because US goes for both altitude and speed. Gaijin forces us to take off within 30 miles of the enemy in an interceptor profile. That’s clearly not how it’s suppose to work considering p51s for CAP would take off from England as previously stated.
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I’ll need practice with F4U-4 to get sustained deg/s obtained, but in a left hand turn I seem to be able to hit about 21 and in a right hand turn 21.5 deg/s at ~310 km/h IAS at 1000 meter altitude (chosen so that I dont crash into something unwanted). Instantaneous capability was 31 deg/s following a dive to 550 km/h IAS under 1000 meters.
This was measured with joystick and rudder controls, no autotrim & no instructor.
Minfuel.
Sustained is super wobbly because I struggle to maintain exactly 0 m/s climb or SEP in the F4U-4, I haven’t flown her in ages. Left-hand turn is waaaay wobblier than right hand turn as an additional consequence. SEP for the right hand turn was wobbling between -5 to +5
Edit:
Decided to see what happens if I dive from 5 km:
Biggest issue with measuring instantenous is that I g-lock super fast.
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There are plenty of other examples, like the F8F and F4U-7 on the French tree. The F8F climbs almost like a rocket and is generally very strong, but the French tree version still shows much less battered player statistics. There’s not much one can do about the P-51s and their struggles with the climbing game in ARB, aside from hoping for a ‘good team’ (or something close to it) or having enough experience/wit to find other ways to handle being outperformed, say, if you’re circling around zeroes, just treat it like you would against biplanes speed off, barrel around, and strafe and so on since they can’t go over 500kmh/310mph, there is a counter to everything but it’s a matter of playing your cards well.
I don’t think there will be any catering to do such a major balancing as to give the P-51 an air spawn despite it being the closest it gets as consolation to not lining up to how it would’ve actually entered a battle realistically.
Yep, that’s one of the reasons everyone takes Runa as a fool. He treats third party sources like they’re gospel.
I’m still eager to meet you in custom battles to show your excellent piloting experience.
109F4, G.55 Sotto 0, F4U-4, P-51C, P-51/Mustang Ia, Tada’s Ki-61. I’m happy to fly any of the listed planes against you in a mirror match-up. You get to use whatever control scheme you’re most comfortable with, too. I’ll use my own.
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In the contrary, I greatly value their input. Statshark’s pretty on-point for jets but their prop simulation is still very WIP.
For example, this happened a lot last time I checked it:
And other stupid things like a Bf 109 C outaccelerating an LF mk9 by a LOT.
Listen, you’re taking examples of planes that do t even fit the role I’m talking about. I don’t know how you can misunderstand that. F8F, Is meant to take off and defend the carrier fleet so of course its climb is going to be good. I’m SPECIFICALLY speaking to long range escorts. All of your “whataboutism” seems to only be directed toward planes that fit that role.
I’d argue that if it goes to 5.0, they D10 and D30 should get an air spawn no questions asked due to what they go up against, and what they’re designed / intended to do. Forcing a long range escort into a climbing match against K4s, and Yak3s is terrible game design.
@RunaDacino - definitely seems like there are some pretty significant built in limitations for using mouse/keyboard. Would be curious to see the Mustang… might have to get on that.
@The_Omen17 - it’s incredibly difficult to balance aircraft whose primary attribute is speed. That said, it’s staggering to me how many people don’t bother to climb so they can trade altitude for speed.
You sound like a fanboy deeply disappointed that the P-51 does not work as advertised by the guys from the History Channel.
Nobody forces you to play war thunder - and irl and wt are 2 separate worlds. US fighters worked in the ETO just with numerical and altitude advantage - in wt you can clean up entire lobbies if you know what you are doing. Usually your main weakness is your US team, but as soon as you find a random stranger you can play 2 vs 8 and still win.
And yes, i played about 1.600 matches in US props - the same planes perform way better in other nations, this is no accident.
3-4 people with a functional understanding of how to fly their Corsair/Mustang/Kingcobra/Thunderbolt seems to be the critical mass for winning matches. I would agree that once that numbers are thinned out mid-to-late match, just 2 can be enough.
It’s very common to see winning matches end with only six aircraft, sometimes less, carding an aerial victory. The other 10 players have value as bait, since they’re likely on the deck providing free RP/SL to the enemy and thus helping the pilots who did climb ;-).
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Long time problem unfortunately, since ever actually. It is very sad.
Rudder fights against you too.