No. That’s a broad interpretation of history. The P-51 was designed as a long range fighter bomber escort. It did encounter jets, but that was not it’s design purpose. History does not support your assertion.
To add since you are making more shit up. The explicit changes in the P-51H were because the designer was curious why British fighters were so much lighter. The changes made in the H model were due to him learning more about their weight.
Sorry man, but this is a fairy tale.
Just look into the facts (who asked for what reason the Mustang was developed) and distinguish between initially developed and later optimized and used as - otherwise you qualify for this quote:
Next:
Frankly spoken: You might think about what you are writing here.
Applying reverse logic you say the American engineers were brain dead compared to every other nation and realized very late that their planes were too heavy.
Insane claim.
If you look at aircraft designed to meet actual specifications of the USAAC/USAAF (like P-36, P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47) you might realize that the weight of US aircraft was a result of those requirements and not because their designers were incompetent the years before.
You might take a look at the parameters which lead to the F8F Bearcat - light weight, able to use smaller escort carriers with insane performance up to 4 km - able to intercept hordes of incoming kamikaze aircraft.
That’s the main reason why US players get clapped whilst flying them - they are not able to win a fight vs a plain 109 G-6 AS, G-14, G-10 or K-4 as soon as they try to fight above 5 km due to lack of a more capable supercharger as there was no need for high alt combat in the Pacific.
Yes ignore the Yak-15P more, allow me to continue to feast on the tears of prop players for longer.
The way gaijin has modeled the bearcat is infuriating because it is producing way less power than it should due to them screwing up the power curves with and without ram air, as well as its energy retention being piss poor for some reason when by all accounts it is very good in that field.
Although i followed these discussions and gaijin has imho a “special” way to look at certain aspects of certain aircraft (if they are not USSR) - the lack of engine power at higher alt was seen as acceptable sacrifice to get the lower alt performance.
So even if i am with you - the conceptual disadvantage at higher alt was a result of design choices - and not because US engineers became suddenly smart over night and found out that a lighter aircraft with a stronger engine might better perform. And that was the claim i answered to.
Have a good one!
I wasn’t trying to say that the bearcat was optimized for high altitude. The problem is that 5 km isn’t a high altitude at all. It is 16,400 feet, which is an altitude that was regularly fought at in the Pacific, and an altitude the bearcat was designed for. If you look at speed charts, the bearcat starts to slow down at above 20,000 feet. Which makes perfect sense for the Pacific. The bearcat in war thunder should be in its element, given the design sacrifices work into its favor. Its just that gaijin refuses to fix it.
I am not sure if your claim “specifically designed to intercept jets” is actually backed by evidence. Imho you can come to this conclusion, but the main driver for high performance prop aircraft was imho the logical consequence of following some basic rules:
A speed advantage is essential for the classic decision fight or flee and allows to dominate a fight by giving the option to engage or disengage at will.
In order to make an aircraft faster you need more hp available as improved aerodynamics alone won’t make it. So they added more powerful engines to increase speed. And besides some very smart engineering the main factor of the increase of hp available was the high octane fuel (100-150 octane) and nothing else.
Imho the decisions leading to those aircraft you mentioned were made long before jets became an operational threat. And if you read combat diaries from all involved parties - the only promising tactic to fight jets was to attack them during landing / take-off. Based on the pure numbers advantage all airfields with jet fighters were under constant surveillance during daylight hours. In WT terms: Camping the enemy airfield.
Based on which source you prefer: It boils down that the LW never had more than ~ 50-100 Me 262s operational at any given day - considering the few planes of KG (J) 54 using the fighter-bomber variant.
Whilst the actual decisive HP drop was at 4.700 meters:
USA - Air RB - Performance Guide
I am fully aware that you are fan of USN stuff, but imho we had a similar conversation last year - and from a holistic view the Bearcats are simply non-WW 2 combat stuff - like the P-51 D-30 or H-5…
Don’t forget the total lack of engine cooling. The F8F IRL had NACA analysis docs showing it was too effective at cooling the engine. The docs were forwarded to devs too. It was a conscious choice to make the F8F have engine cooling issues in game.
`In July of 1943, U.S. Army approved a contract with North American Aviation to design and build a lightweight P-51. Designated NA-105, 5 aircraft were to be built and tested. Edgar Schmued, chief of design at NAA, began this design early in 1943. He, in February of 1943, left the U.S. on a two month trip to England. He was to visit the Supermarine factory and the Rolls Royce factory to work on his lightweight project.
Rolls Royce had designed a new version of the Merlin, the RM.14.SM, which was proposed to increase the manifold pressure to 120 (from 67 max) and thus improve horsepower to 2,200. Schmued was very eager to use this powerplant. The new Merlin was not heavier than the earlier models. Schmued visited with the engineers at Rolls Royce and they answered his many questions. Schmued left the Rolls Royce factory very satisfied with their cooperation.
Brittish fighters were lighter than U.S. fighters. Schmued ask for detailed weight statements from Supermarine on the Spitfire. Schmued wanted to know why the Spitfires were so much lighter than the P-51. Supermairne did not have such data on the Spitfire, so they started weighing all the parts they could get a hold of and made a report for Schmued. The Brittish had design standards that were not as strict in some areas of design as the U.S. Landing gear, angle of attack and side engine design loads were higher in the U.S.
When Schmued returned, they began a new design of the P-51 Mustang that used Brittish design loads. They shaved weight on any part that could yield. They were able to reduce the empty weight of the P-51 by 600 pounds. This would translate into more performance.`
Source:
I read, "they were able to reduce it to an empty weight of 600Lb’s"😂. Was about to be like, wow, that’s the most amazing thing I’ve ever heard
Whilst the actual decisive HP drop was at 4.700 meters
Looked at the manual. My mistake.
and from a holistic view the Bearcats are simply non-WW 2 combat stuff
The bearcat was put into service with a squadron on May 21st, 1945. It is absolutely a WW2 aircraft. The bearcat’s problem is that its gimped to hell. Looking at the power, speed, and climb charts, it is clearly equivalent to the 109’s in terms of performance up to about 6000 meters.
😂😂😂😂
Sounds like he had his answer. Spitfires were much more fragile than the P-51.
On top of having fewer guns and having everything operated by air pressure, which of course saved weight but also made it very prone to damage.
What cooling issues?
On military power F8F has no cooling issues in War Thunder.
WEP causes issues, but that’s cause it’s WEP.
Even on WEP you can open radiator and manage heat.
Its cooling only got improved a few months back. It’s actually playable now.
Yeah, it used to basically have the engine on a timer once you took off.
Funny enough, the cooling characteristics of the F8F IRL are still vastly superior to the one in-game. NACA docs showed it could happily sustain military power almost indefinitely, even in high heat/ arid environments.
Yeah, IIRC the late 2800s actually suffered from overcooling of all things. Would be nice if the Bearcat didn’t shit away all of its speed instantly.
So what?
You can send hundreds of links, but you can’t change the facts regarding your initial claims.
And also as written earlier, the HP increase was a direct result of high octane fuel which allowed higher manifold pressure in the 1st place. So any performance advantage was based on fuel delaying knock and nothing else… and then aerodynamics and weight.
The fact that a B4 fueled Ta 152 H outperformed allied fighters above 11 km (as a design goal to fight expected B-29s) with just 87 instead of 150 octane should support this view.
It’s not the only plane suffering.
I would like to fly 190s - but their FMs contradict all contemporary reports (LW comparisons, mock-up fights) which made them equal to 109s (A-models) below 5 km and superior (D-9s…) vs late 109s. In wt they behave like bricks.
the f4u-4/7s aren’t bricks lol. You never had problems fighting them for the same reason I’ve won dogfights against p51h’s in the sea fury despite sea fury can’t even outperform the bf109 g6 in other than running away til your engine cooks. Just because you don’t have trouble fighting the average guy that keeps the 7.0 performing prop at 6.3 does not mean the p51h should stay at 6.3. I consistently kill BI’s in f8f-1b, does it mean the BI is 6.7 worthy and anything between 5.7 and 6.7 should see it nearly every match? No. It means most people playing it are bad.