Otomatic outdated for 11.3 needs 10.3-10.7 BR

Well, im my experience it does.

Played it again in a few matches just yesterday (had a Special task going requiring 14 aircraft kills in GB), and was well able to defend the Blues from air. IIRC got 4 kills in 2 matches, 3 kills in one match, the other 3 kills I did with the Mistral-SIDAM.

Yes, I got killed too, mostly by tanks rushing spawn though, if memory serves me right. From the air, Vikhr-armed threats seem most dangerous, especially the Su-39…

How? I admit I don’t have it (yet), but going off of other people’s gameplay, the OTOMATIC has a maximum effective range of ~7km if the CAS is completely clueless and flying straight with no deviation in flight path. A maximum range of 3-4km seems more reasonable under normal circumstances, which (without thinking about radar quality) is 9.7-10.3 BR SPAA range.

This again shows the problem, an 11.3 BR SPAA should not be worse than SPAA 1.0-1.7 BR below it (I mean the SIDAM 25 Mistral has a similar effective range and it is 9.7).

True, but that does apply also to SACLOS SAMs: A lot of CAS plots really don’t fly defesive on their attack runs. The ones that play well however make it harder (as it should be). That’s the same no matter what AD vehicle you use.

Yes, it’s more of a close range system. I’d say the SAMS are great at longer distances, worse at short, the Otomatic (and other SPAAG’s obviously) the other way round.

It isn’t. I only bring the Mistral SIDAM as later spawn. And it’s much less effective, of course. Claiming that the OTOMATIC is worse than the SIDAM would be completely wrong.

What were your targets?

FlaRakRad is also kinda shit ngl

But (top tier) SACLOS SAMs have ~2.0-3.0x the range of the OTOMATIC.

That’s not true, though. The OTOMATIC as an air defense system does not work well in the current game, nor are harder-to-use SPAAs generally better.

But it being a short-range system means that it performs terribly at its BR. SPAA with only guns are only found at a maximum BR of 10.0 or lower, but somehow the OTOMATIC is the exception to this because? An 11.3 SPAA should be reaching 7-8km easily, and that’s going off of the Type 87 C which really should be 11.0.

But you’re performing similarly to a 9.7 SPAA in a 11.3 SPAA, that should not happen in the vast majority of scenarios.

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I’m not saying the OTOMATIC wouldn’t benefit from a BR reduction. I’m saying one can make it work quite well at its BR.

“Terribly” is a strong word when in my personal experience I can kill 3, 4 aircraft or helis. Consider the SAM’s to be stand off defense, OTOMATIC a CIWS.

No, I’m not. The OTOMATIC is much more efficient than the SIDAM. At least for me.

The statement doesn’t mean anything, then, as any vehicle can “work” at any BR (the M22 Locust, for example).

If it has an effective range 2.0x smaller than SPAA at its BR and a 3.0x-4.0x smaller effective range than SPAA 0.3 BR above it, it is most definitely performing terribly. A CIWS system should be at 10.0 BR or lower like the rest of the SPAAG.

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At the top tier there are a lot of people who have been playing for a short time but have shopped a lot so they don’t know that you don’t fly randomly and in a straight line.

https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/226073794129207139

We seem to have very different definitions of “terribly”.

Spoiler

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It perform terribly when used by a medium player only. Used by a good/a few skilled player it is a World-destroyer.

Number of CAS killed: 6
Number of CAS killed outside of 2km (can be done with any SPAA above 6.0): 4
Number of CAS killed outside of 4km (can be done with any SPAA above 8.3-8.7): 4
Number of CAS killed outside of 5km (can be done with any SPAA above 9.7): 3
Number of CAS killed outside of 5km that aren’t slow-moving drones or helicopters (can be done with any SPAA, besides the OTOMATIC, above 10.0): 0

Also this appears to be a full downtier, with the aircraft you shot down being:

  • Two barely-moving Alouette II’s (8.3 BR) at ~4.3km and ~5.0km respectively
  • A Ka-50 moving straight forward (11.0 BR) at ~4.1km
  • A German Tornado (BR 11.0 or 11.3) moving straight and forward at ~1.1-1.4km
  • A German MiG-21MF (BR 10.3) moving straight above you at 0.75-1.25km
  • A barely-moving Orion drone at 5.1-5.5km (Edit: forgot to add it originally)

The 11.3 OTOMATIC performing like a 10.0 SPAA (while in a full downtier) does not mean that it is performing well as an 11.3 SPAA.

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If this is the case, it ain’t a truthful review of OTOs capabilities.
If you are playing against players and not bot disguised as one, you’ll be pretty much useless.
For sometime now I’ve opted for fielding the Mistral as it can actually be a real threat now after the buffs it got, we still not have anything I even consider worthy of 11.3/7
I pushed for a very long time to have a mixed subtree with Romania and Hungary for this very reason.

So?

I did my job, didn’t I?

And the OTOMATIC worked, didn’t it?

Am I supposed to feel bad because what I killed was uptiered?

Of course it’s situational - WT always is - and of course it depends a lot on how well the others play. But that’s also the case with all the other SPAAG’s and SAMS…

It’s no Wunderwaffe, that much is clear, but played carefully, it can work well.

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It worked like a 10.0 BR SPAA, yes. The issue is that it is an 11.3 SPAA. It should be able to kill maneuvering CAS outside of 5km, especially since it is 0.3 BR from max BR where SPAA can hit CAS at >10km (or >15km for the Pantsir).

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A good situation is of course if one happens to have both SAMS and SPAAG like the OTOMATIC in the same match: The SAM can dispatch the targets at range, the OTOMATIC then handle the aircraft and helicopters that use the terrain to approach the battlefield.

Had such a match yesterday (I think), where a Type 81 (C) killed the aircraft from afar, I at the same time got the helis that snuck up on us through the hills.

Here actually a not to be underestimated advantage of the OTOMATIC: Thanks to the ballistic curve of its shells one is actually often capable of engaging targets not only hull-dwon but turret-down, or engage targets that hide just behind crests. A SAM often is not able to get those targets in many situations.

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This just means that the OTOMATIC is overtiered, it should have the same range as other SPAA at its BR.

This doesn’t justify the OTOMATIC being such a high BR, though. You could bring any SPAAG from 8.0-10.0 to fill in that role.

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Please name one.

(…that has the same stopping power, accuracy and precision at ranges up to 6 km and more, that is…)

Can the OTOMATIC do that either? Even if it can, and can reliably, that still means it can only hit targets somewhat near the range of other SPAA at its BR if they are barely moving.

Something like the M247 could be used instead, or a SAM SPAA could just get their timing right. One niche application should not keep it at a BR way above where it should be.

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Yes, recently got a kill somewhere between 6 and 7 km.

Sure, he did a poor job evading (or not, actually…), but a kill is a kill.

Nope, not at that distance. Not as reliably either, at shorter distances.

If I get 3, 4 even 5, 6 air kills in the OTOMATIC, while the SAM’s next to me get 1 or 2, doesn’t make me feel the OTOMATIC in any way worse. Also, I never once was in a situation where I felt I suffer in it because I got uptiered.

Usually what its problem is is a) enemy tanks getting you if spawn is overrun, or b) pilots who really know their drill of flying defensively.But the same applies for ANY SAM or SPAAG, at any tier/BR.