Otomatic isn't fair enough for full mag of apfsds,but everything is fine with 2s38? We need to talk

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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There is no doubt for anyone that the Italian anti-aircraft tank is not even remotely good, only if we put it with slow air vehicles, but on the ground, it is an useless tank,While on the other hand, the 2s38, HSTV-L, STRF 9040 BILL/C and Lvkv 9040 C, can have unrestricted quantities of apfsds, with capacities of 230 mm average penetration,While the Otomatic cannot fulfill its main job due to limitations such as projectile speed, obstacles on the maps, which make it difficult to detect aerial targets,And the limitation of apfsds ammunition to only 12 rounds, while the 2s38 can carry 148 apfsds rounds, including that it has proximity detonator rounds, better radar and armor profile,Not only does the Otomatic look like Swiss cheese compared to the 2s38, it makes it look like an unnecessary or completely useless vehicle, in comparison, in every 20 of 30 recent confrontations with the 2s38,In any tank, plane or helicopter, the 2s38 comes out without scratches, while I am left like Swiss cheese, with holes even where the sun does not shine, here there are two options,The 2s38 and all tanks that use apfsds belts, receive the same limitation, or the Otomatic limitation is removed, they want a fair game, make it fair

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IIRC the reasoning is that the APFSDS rounds for the OTOMATIC are bigger than the standard rounds and don’t fit inside the auto-loader as nicely. The 2S38 doesn’t have that limitation.

Both still need some changes but I’d rather they were BR changes (and model changes in the case of the 2S38) than ahistorical ones.

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Yeah, Otomatic needs a massive rework. What points i would love to see be done on Otomatic are these.

1)Fix the model. Otomatic is the only vehicle in the game that has modeled its autoloader and Gaijin just made it into one massive gun breach block. Suprise, 76mm gun breach isnt that large.

  1. Lower its BR down to 10.0/10.3

  2. increase the ammount of APFSDS in the tank. if i can take minimum of 50 i would be much more happy.

  3. Increase the reload speed of 1st stage ammo. You can quickly empty your magazine, but then it takes like 6 minuts to fully loaded. For gun SPAA at top tier, this is killing the vehicle massivly. Plus would be nice if the replenisment on cap point would be faster also.

These are only point i can come up with. There are for sure much more things that needs to be done on it.

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Maybe more rounds doesnt fit into autoloader, but that doesnt stop carrying more APFSDS rounds in the hull for reload.

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(Btw only replying to you just to let you know, but this is mainly for the sake of the whole thread)

The OTOMATIC’s APFSDS rounds are a tiny bit bigger (as in you can barely tell in the visuals shown about it), and they are loaded in a separate feed that can be hand-fed.

The front hull’s ammo stowage from everything I’ve seen does not have such stringent tolerances that the APFSDS rounds wouldn’t be able to fit there, and I’ve seen no evidence to suggest they couldn’t fit.

The easy solution is to just store more APFSDS rounds in the front hull storage, but have a ready-rack mechanic where the hull APFSDS isn’t ready initially, but as the turret-mounted APFSDS runs out the ready rack is filled (very) slowly to simulate an actual person putting it into the turret rack.

Either that or after the turret APFSDS rack is empty, the OTOMATIC has its reload rate significantly reduced so that it simulates a person manually loading APFSDS into the turret feed directly.

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Or just implement the fact there is a seperate 3 round drum for APFSDS and remove the limit on APFSDS storage.

I very much doubt that the main feed cant handle APFSDS, but if we are gonna limit it to how it would actually be used with the seperate feed mechanism we should actually implement it.

In fact too many vehicles are inaccurately implemented because of the incredibly simplistic ready rack system currently in play.

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Interesting, thank you! That could be a nice semi-fix then. I’d also say a decrease to 11.0 would be good, maybe 10.7 but that APFSDS change may make that overkill.

2S38 needs the new modules updated which is being worked on, and then to go to 10.7 or so, at least to begin with.

I’d say that solves 90% of the issues, and then further data can be obtained on their performance

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Yeah, that’s the thing that gets manually loaded and is the feed that readies the APFSDS to be fired. All they need to do is just let us load that feed with ammo from the hull.

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Well both feed mechanisms get manually loaded from the hull. Its just one is a 3 round drum and the other has room for way more.

Edit: but yes both should be able to load from the hull

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BECAUSE Otomatic uses a entire coastal fleet weapon in a vehicle chassis with minor adjust for begin able to be used in the OF-40 platform,

In other hand ONLY the cannon (Au-220M) is used in coastal fleet ships in case of the 2S38, the firing system Bajkal was made specifically for ground vehicles like the BMP-3,

And also, Otomatic had only 2 prototypes and never entered service, but, 2S38 entered service by the last year.

At least Otomatic has APFSDS because if it was really that accurate, probably (I don’t know), this one would be shooting SAPHE on main battle tanks.

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But something that not many see is that no matter the type of round, the autoloader can store apfsds and HEVT, if the loading line did not support apfsds, you would need some manual loading method,But if it supports the apfsds,and it could not be a problem with the chamber, the length is not a problem, if a projectile were to enter ,it would only have to have some space to fit,Then the system pushes the projectile into the chamber and fires, the recoil removes the case, loads another and fires, it is not a design limitation, it is a mechanical limitation,The Otomatic could carry APFSDS projectiles in the turret or hull without problems, those are not spaces so closed that they could not fit,In conclusion, the charger supports the apfsds without any problem, and the storage of these should not affect the number of apfsds that can be carried,It is a mechanical limitation that should not be there, Maybe it should be limited in APFSDS because it is a 76 mm weapon, but I don’t see the same in other vehicles of the same type, but many other vehicles have better capabilities ,While the Otomatic is limited, it cannot carry out its main function, and cannot defend itself from attackers, mobility is good, but not so much that it has to be so limited.

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I believe the issue you are having is because of the class of vehicle. The 2S38, HSTV-L, and STRF 9040s are light tanks, and it makes sense for them to be able to carry full APFSDS from a balance standpoint. The OTOMATIC is an SPAA and being able to bring 90 APFSDS rounds in an SPAA is crazy because then you just get a tank destroyer for much less cost. Add to that that you have 300mm+ pen on those APFSDS and it makes sense why they limit it. Looks like a similar sitation as the Gepard with the APDS being limited to the secondary magazine.

There are some SPAA that are limited by how much ammo they can take and what type. The M247 can take 4 belts of default ammo, but has to only take 2 belts of anything else so you can’t take a full load of just SAPHE or HE-VT. I would love for it to be able to carry 4 belts of HE-VT, but then it would be a huge adtamtage for the vehicle.

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The 2S38 is a SPAA irl.

The HSTV-L has FLIR tracking so it can take out both tanks and aircraft, and it has HE-VT rounds to facilitate that. The Strf’s are the closest of those mentioned thus far, since it doesn’t have any method of tracking (the HSTV-L currently doesn’t either in game, but it should).

But having it limited to 12 total is way too restrictive. It should bare minimum should be able to carry 30 (especially since it’s at 11.3!).

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I am aware that the 2S38 is actually an anti aircraft platform, but all the vehicles mentioned in my reply are all classed as light tanks. It doesn’t make sense to me why the 2S38 is classed as such because it clearly shouldn’t be, but it is what it is.

I get that, but it is one of the very few SPAA that can defend against vehicles with armor. Not saying it’s right by any means, just that it is how it is right now. I honestly think this is another case of an armor piercing round pushing up an SPAA to unusable battle ratings.

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OTOMATIC is modelled wrongly in the game. Irl it has double autoloader, the main one for anti-air shells (+theoretically for SAPOM) and an additional for anti-tank shells (APFSDS). The “12 apfsds” limitation comes from 3 ready to fire shells in the additional autoloader + 9 shells in the first-order ammo rack next to it, although nothing stops from carrying additional apfsds shells in the hull ammorack near driver.

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So when might we get the chance to bring more than a handful of Sabots into combat?
Gaijin: NEVER

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At this point the DRACO will come before the OTOMATIC gets a buff lmao

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The bottom line should be 30 APFSDS+stock APFSDS+BR 10.7 or lower. Infinite AP as a bare minimum for 11.3.

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That’s a light tank, so its logical to have unrestricted apfsds rounds.
But I agree with the rest.

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The Otomatic is physically limited to the 16 or whatever APFSDS due to it’s feed system, same with the Gepard’s 80 APDS

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