The 2s38 and BMP-2M, to name just two examples, do the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with the HSTVL, or any other vehicle for that matter, and everything to do with how the game handles armor at extremely shallow angles. Due to the vagaries of online multiplayer this can sometimes happen even when it looks like it shouldn’t on your screen. Because of this vehicles with harshly angled plates have a tendency to survive shots they probably shouldn’t.
Strv 103 my beloved <3
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It’s not “allegedly” missing a better. We know it’s missing the better round. It’s a known a fact that the HSTVL has used better rounds than what it uses in game. Stop playing word games. By using the word “allegedly” you are insinuating that the round may not exist.
It’s almost as if the otomatic should be lowered in BR because it sucks at being an SPAA. Hell even the LAV is better than that thing. The OTOMATIC should be at a .3 or .7 br higher than the 2S38 because both have pretty much the same capability and play style. The only difference is apfsds round where the 2s38 gets a weaker penning/post pen damage round but it gets a massive ammo pool along with better survivability.
edit: You should not be using player statistics as a way of seeing if a vehicle is OP or not, let along using that statistics on premium vehicles. You will be lumping in low level premium players and braindead players. Rather you should be comparing vehicle statistics and capability.
If you start using player statistics then you start getting 2 tanks that are exactly the same but one gets reduced in br because a certain group of players suck (germain m48)
Sure, when Otomatic loses its 105mm DM23 equivalent round.
Glad you agree with me.
If you did use player stats then you’d think the 2S38 is OP when it isn’t.
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bmp2 is a better vehicle and I dont see any1 crying about it.
Completely ignored my first argument but okay.
Completely ignored my second second argument but okay again.
You are either skimming through or not understanding what I said. the 2s38 and the otomatic have very close capabilities but have their own pros and cons which I listed some of them. They are very close to each hence why I said that they should be around near each other (in terms of BR).
the 2s38 has a 50% winrate. It is an average vehicle according to player statistics, and at face value isn’t OP. Don’t know what you’re talking about. The reason why I made this comment is you mentioned
12 rounds is enough for 4 - 5 frags for me, 2 minimum for the average 2S38 player.
3 minimum for the average Begleit player
I don’t know why you’re comparing yourself (who is an experienced and a good player) to the average player (which also lumps in low lvl players). You should be comparing to players that have similar level of skill.
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The 2S38 is vastly inferior in SPAA to the OTOMATIC.
The 2S38 is vastly inferior in anti-tank to the OTOMATIC currently.
OTOMATIC having its APFSDS removed would make the 2S38 better in anti-tank, and OTOMATIC would still be vastly superior in anti-air to reduce its BR to ~10.3 - 10.7.
What does team skill have to do about whether a tank is OP or not?
No, you shouldn’t compare separate players period. Scientific method says to never do that.
How? The OTOMATIC gets 12 APFSDS rounds currently, and the 2S38 can carry 148.
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12 rounds equivalent to DM23 of the 105mm size with less spall capability due to lower mass.
2 - 6 frags.
I didn’t say the playstyle’s the same, I said the anti-armor capability is the same.
Even with those of an average KDR of 2:1 in 2S38, which is at most 20 rounds of panic fire.
148 rounds is at least 30 frags capable, yet no one has consistently gotten anywhere close.
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Both have very similar capabilities but you trade firepower for survivability and flexibility ( like I mentioned in my previous response which you seem to not even read). When it comes to kill aircraft, the otomatic is only better because of the damage output and proxy, not accuracy and range because both tanks have similar muzzle velocity. When it comes to kill tanks, you certainly get a better round but you trade off round capacity. What the otomatic lacks in is any form of survivability. Since it’s high profile, no detailed modules, manned crew, massive breach, and lightly armored, it is an easy target toward and easy to kill. The 2s38, is a light tank but because it has detailed modules and unmanned turret, it has a higher chance of surviving first shot engagements.
I never said that the otomatic is a 1:1. There are trade off for each tank and in my opinion survivability is much more important at this br bracket due to auto cannons being much more prevalent at this br which is why it should be .3 or .7 higher. Removing the apfsds would make it a 10.0 vehicle not a 10.3-10.7 because you would be comparing it to the likes of the 2s6.
the reason why I mentioned winrate is because you mentioned player stats in the first place
If you did use player stats then you’d think the 2S38 is OP when it isn’t.
so doing a simple google search shows that the avg win rate is 50% which shows that by looking at player statistics, the 2s38 is average which is not the case. If it was above average it would’ve been raised in br. that is why I said we should’ve look at player statistics when balancing vehicles.
The reason why I brought up player skill is when someone asked is 14 rounds enough is because you said:
12 rounds is enough for 4 - 5 frags for me, 2 minimum for the average 2S38 player.
3 minimum for the average Begleit player
so what if it’s an experienced player using the 2s38 or begleit? I gaurentee you, that the kill count would be much higher just because of it’s sheer volume of fire. The whole point of bringing this up is because of the player statistics the 2s38 is not being changed in br. If it was judged based on capability or at the very least, experienced players, then I’d be fine with.
Btw post was temporarily taken down because people flagged it. I guess we just block arguments we cant win.
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Just edit the post and then the flag will go away.
Yes, it is normal on this forum. We do not discuss anything here. We just speak and block anything that hurt our feelings. That’s how WT players are here.
Nope, edited post is shown for couple hours, then some stona or other “”“moderator”“” hides post again
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Certain players: “the entirety of American Top Tier performs bad because all of its players suck and have a skill issue, not because there’s any actual problem with the vehicles, which are aktchually the best!”
Same players when a Russian Premium that sells like pancakes among new players performs poorly (and still has a higher WR than anything American at Top Tier): “it’s because it’s terrible and Russia suffers.”
Anyway, I don’t think HSTV-L should go down while being as nerfed as it is. It should just get un-nerfed, even if that meant placing it at 11.7. This vehicle is used at top BR anyway;
-Give it its proper shell.
-With its proper muzzle speed and penetration.
-With actual spalling generation.
-Give it the missing air tracking and HE-VT shells.
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Alternate options could be to add the HiMag or RDF/LT, M1296, M3A4(XM813) or Sgt. Stout ( IM-SHORAD Increment I) to provide more performant options
iirc HIMAG had a hard-mounted gun, just like the FV-4005 Stage 1.
RDF/LT would be the best option.
- 60 Rounds
- 0.8s or 1.0s reload
- Could add stinger pods
Has enough differences to HSTV-L that would it being the end of the line Light Tank for USA, aside from Bradley or M1128 varients.
Editor Note: Theres also the V-AGS.
the last 2s38 update is actualy a buff, I can shoot nonstop now, before I could only shoot 12 rounds and had to reload lol
A better question than moving the HSTV-L down is why isn’t the 2S38 the same BR as the Otomatic?
One is undertiered, and the other is overtiered. But they should be around the same BR.
Many such cases.