Nuclear Escalation Returns!

I don’t understand what you mean with that first part? ALARMs are long range ARMs? So are the Kh31s; if you were using them at 10km then you’re using them wrong?

Also you say NATO are better at saturation attacks, but that’s not true, both for irl doctrine and in-game performance.

My understanding is that there is a mismatch in scale between the systems being used - Buk is not the peer of SAMPT, they are fundamentally different tools. It’s at this point that my brain is reminding me that the Devs and company culture remains very Russo-centric, so that doctrinal difference is obviously not going to be obvious to them.

I wish I could explain this better, but I’m typing on my phone and also would need a whiteboard and some diagrams, but essentially I believe there is a fundamental mismatch between:

  • “What equipment is designed to be able to do”
  • “What things are possible with the equipment”
  • “What things are fun to do with the equipment”
  • “How the equipment is really used”

I feel like you’re mixing them all up a little.

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Agm88 work much better than kh31 inside 10km , kh31 work best than anything else at longer ranges. ALARM seems just useless but i never tried those

To the devs:
You guys need to really listen to the feed back provided here I hope for the player and even your benefit the next tests will have changes and improvements, I understand the current mode will not represent the final version as you have stated back in the April fools post but what we are seeing here is very buggy, very unbalanced and not fun and rewards are not worth the effort. You guys put the effort to make this mode so make it worthwhile and listen to the feedback.

Yeah, weird how equipment is more effective at the ranges it’s designed to operate at 🙄

The AGM88 is a chubby AIM7; the Kh31s is a miniaturised anti-ship missile. They have different designs and philosophies and should be used accordingly.

I still don’t understand why you mention it in reply to me saying that ALARMs do not perform realistically because SPAA/SAM are omniscient.

Also gbu39 just wipes out any static SAM, i consistently take out 3 pantsir/2s6 with 8 gbu on the f16 meanwhile ITO intercept all 6 kh38 easily, maybe 20-30% of the times one goes trough. As of now NATO without BUK would wipe out the whole frontline once the gbu39 meta is discovered. BUK need to be less oppressive to make this dynamic olay out, russians putting oressure on long range radars (wich need to be much better protected against kh31) and NATO could wipe out the frontline SACLOS aa by agm88 + gbu39/spice/gbu53.

I don’t know how you’ve got so lucky, I can’t hit a single Pantsir with even AASMs - it’s as if there’s something buggy with how all engagement logic works.

Firing at airports is the kh31 niche, so i took the miment to say what a balanced DEAD gameplay would look like, i do not have experience with ALARM so i don’t know if it fits my view

hope moscu had the 2s6 like in game xD

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Yes, that’s the reason I’m pushing back against it - it’s fitted flawed logic based on an incomplete understanding of the systems in play.

Like I said, most of the systems in this mode are being treated like peers when they are not - they are unique tools with specific uses. Trying to balance them as if they were peers is doomed to fail.

gaijin put ultra doper realistic spaa in russia side… oh wait the game is russian so balance will be for russia xD

Put the point of interest at the depot before taking off, at circa 30km look at it at the most altitude you can muster before cloud cover, you will see the 3 sams guarding it, put a gps point on each, depending on the distance you manage to do that go back on the deck (to avoid the BUK-cake) or launch strigh away, use the salvo fire and use at least 8 gbu39 for 3 sams. They will kill the 3 sams with 1-2 gbu39 destroyed before reaching. Sometimes a single one wil remain.

Another tactic is to fire the gbu like i sad before and use the F16 esm, with it you can see when the 2s6/pantsir start using theyr radar and launch a agm88 to one of them (at least 2 for each) to do that you need to wait that the gbu start getting engaged by the sams, so it is more risky for the buk-cake.

Obviusly the buk is broken and doing this you will die mostly from the buk, but most of the time at least you can fire off the gbu39 and get the kills

Letting the agm88 shine against the frontline AA is not a bad idea tho?

I think maybe you’re missing the point - even if the Buk was as good as it is in game (unlikely, but even so), pretending that the SAMPT is a NATO equivalent is just not going to cut it.

My mistake, I didn’t make it clear, I was being facetious.

I know “how”, it’s just not a useful point of orientation for have balance and mode construction.

Buk and sampt should be removed and replaced with s300 and patriot, move the sampt and buk to guard airfields and engaged planes inside 10 km and munitions inside 15 km

The spyder is such an easy target for kh31 it’s comical. At least with SAMPT i need at least 3-4 kh31 and some luck

The only reason for this tactic to not be broken is the buk being OP

It would be nice, yes, but it would not fix the issues.

Better ideas that would not require manually messing with individual missiles (and creating a new “meta”):

  • less AA per km (making it less likely that you get 3rd partied by AI)
  • AA only engages targets it has actual knowledge of (via radar or irst), makes top-attack munitions actually worth the trade off with speed.
  • AA gets realistic Detect->ID->Engage times for each individual target. (No more being fired on as you come over a ridge for example).
  • More persistent Target location sharing - maybe coupled with snapping target selection for valid targets on the map (like a TSD)
  • Actual rewards - if I can only get 2 Pantsir kills before dying, they should be worth something.
  • Reload times for SPAA/SAM should be much longer, Buk should not be able to fit all its missiles and do the same again 30 seconds later.
  • Targets should not respawn, or if they do, they should spawn a worse version; Buk dies, respawns as Pantsir. Pantsir dies, respawns as Shilka.
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It wouldn’t be broken though? You still have to get in range and deploy the weapons, they can still be shot down and there’s plenty of GPS bombs in the Russian tree to use the same tactic with? You’re also ignoring all the moving targets that GPS bombs are useless against. Not to mention the balancing nightmare that comes from that sort of “xyz is broken” mentality.

Weapon systems are not broken in isolation. As a certified LMUR hater, I refuse to call it broken because if Gaijin changed a few other factors, it would be interesting to play against.

Also the “just swap them w S300 and Patriot” take is awful - you’re just making the problem worse by adding more layers to the cake instead of cooking it right.

S300 and Patriot are also not peers and would have their own busted issues.

Any other tactic is not as effective, with the russians you can only use the fab300 and take out a single target, kh38 get intercepted 80% of the time.NATO teams palrwady can deal with frontline depots easily russians not so much