And in addition to the Exocet missiles for the French, we have the RBS15 for the Swedes.
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Talk is cheap, lets see you guys actually pull it off and make it enjoyable as the Aprils Fools event was.
Because in its current state that mode is far from enjoyable.
Its basically just TDM on a very large map with cheating AI that tracks and hits you where it should not.
Then there are server issues with these big maps and what i will say next will anger a lot of people.
But the massive load on during the match coupled with lag compensation from having players connect from every region to a server is not helping.
I should not be allowed to join a region where with a 250+ ping.
Because i seen players dodge missiles due to the lag only to get killed out of nowehere later on without anything hitting them.
We are talking about a gap of 15-30 seconds btw.
Then there are the rewards, risk vs reward doesnt even compared.
All PVE sams have a very good chance of killing you before you get a missile off even with the anit radiation missies and god forbid you try to gring modules for a plane.
then you look at the SL required to respawn in your 14.7 …
I was enjoying the Aprils Fools Nuclear Thunder on boths sides , Nuclear escalation not at all.
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GREAT News!
If you won’t nerf SPAA overall, please work on the code, as the bleed over into Helicopter EC is making the game unplayable. Gepards shoot everything down now, and it takes a volley of ATGMS to hopefully kill one SPAA.
Additionally, it would be nice to see the Tu-160 and B-1, and a return of the big bombers into the game.
Tu-95 and B-52H were sort of the whole point, in a way, of the nuclear escalation… the idea that the bombs get bigger as the (implied) strategic stakes get larger.
Airfield recover and capture sounds cool, but not sure if it has a place in this game mode.
The more eras the better. The more maps that fit Escalation the merrier.
All in all, this has been the best game mode ever, in my opinion. It feels like the pinnacle of War Thunder, and is a welcome break from the typical grind of Air and Ground RB.
Seriously looking forward to new modes for ARB and GRB. Historical events will truly be nice as well.
Thank you BVV_d and team for this update!
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Thise are Amazing news. Letting the devs expirience Nuclear thunder for themselves is also really good. I am exited for the chages.
There are still things i’d like to see
● More ARMs on Low tier Jets (shrikes)
● Free Vehicles for Nuclear thunder like in the april fools event. Just some Strike Aircraft so you can play with your lower tier Friends
● that Sams cant/wont fire on the move.
Thank you for listening an i am very happy about the news.
I wonder what will happen when you add op mechanic which ground players doesn’t have much to counter
ARMs spam i love it so much …
Cas shouldn’t exist the way it exists, people should play proper 10 min+ match to be able to spawn in Aircrafts in Ground battles, it has ruined gameplay experience of Ground players. Recent CAS buff has made game unplayable.
In regards to not nerfing AA as it would ruin the identity of the mode.
I think you misunderstand player complaints. We want to do SEAD and DEAD, but right now it is so hard and unsatisfying to do, and ofcourse, the rewards are bad.
I will explain what makes SEAD fun in other games, such as nuclear option, and i hope you can learn some lessons from these other games.
-
Respawning AA breaks any sense of progression.
When i play other games, I love to try and clear a corridor for my team so that they can get access to important targets, depots, Big SAMs etc. When the AA is constantly respawning, even if i work super hard, I never actually reduce the amount of AA by that much because it simply respawns. If AA respawns were more limited, or disabled entirely, you could see holes form in the air defense, creating a more dynamic and interesting match -
SAMS are too hard to defeat
I think the main complaint about AA from players is that the AI SAMs are nearly impossible to defeat, unless you break line of sight. When I verse these systems in in ground RB, I can skillfully use chaff and maneuvers to dodge the incoming missiles. This is very fun and high skill expression, but it seems nearly impossible to do in Nuclear escalation, especially with SO MANY systems firing at you. -
SAMs engage targets far too quickly.
Again this is from my experience in ground RB, when i verse these systems there, It is much easier to overwhelm them with munitions. The AI SAMs are perfect, and engage all munitions instantly and perfectly, making it extremely unsatisfying to fight against them. There is very few viable strategies to beat them, unless you yolo in and “suicide run” at the SAMs, dying yourself to take them out. -
Infinite ammo SAMs
In other games, SAMs do not have infinite ammo, UNLESS they are near a munitions crate of some kind. This means I can destroy that munitions crate to stop them from reloading. And not all SAM sites have these ammo crates. This gives me variety in gameplay, where I can do the safe method of destroying there ammo, and slowly bleeding them out of missiles, or do the high risk thing and try and destroy them directly.
TLDR
SEAD gameplay can be extremely fun, but right now the SAMs are far too powerful to allow such gameplay. There is very little diversity in strategy, most successful strategies I see on youtube are just spamming weapons from as far away as possible which is not fun gameplay. If you make the SAMs less dangerous, you can allow for more different tactics and ways to play, such as bombs and rockets. The players want a SEAD game mode, but right now the current SEAD gameplay is NOT fun.
3 Likes
Please could you guys look in to making new modes for ground RB.
p.s love the feed back you guys gave.
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I am very happy to hear your plans to bring back historical events. It’s the simple thing like that which makes the game heartfelt and filled with passion. Back in like 2014 and 2015 there was a historical event EVERY WEEKEND!!! Please bring that back, and do it all the time- don’t just stop like when you brought it back a few years ago like literally one time and forgot about it. Do multiple a week.
Assymetrical, historical vehicle lineups with events- they WILL be unbalanced, but it’s the immersion and challenge that makes them fun. Battle of Stalingrad, T-34 1942s vs PzIV F1s and F2s, PzIII, etc. Strategic bombing missions- B-17’s and P51s vs F190s and or an extremely small number of Me262s (like the ancient “Flight of the Swallow’s” event), Battle of Berlin with 2 or 3 Tiger IIs, some Tiger Is and Panthers vs a metric TON of T-34s and IS2s. That type of thing. BRING THIS BACK! You will see player numbers SKYROCKET. Give us a fun escape from the grind and unimmersive ahistorical mixed battles.
Heck, with new assets you could even add a “carrier duel” game mode, where player aircraft fight to destroy the enemy fleet first. Battle of the Coral Sea, Battle of Midway, or even modern hypothetical cold war carrier fleet battles.
First of all, thank you for being transparent about Escalation and for listening to player feedback. This mode already feels like one of the most exciting additions to War Thunder in years.
Escalation brings something that the game was missing: modern air operations with real objectives. SEAD, DEAD, long-range SAMs, anti-radiation missiles, stand-off weapons, aiming points and man-in-the-loop guidance finally make teamwork and mission planning more important than simply getting kills.
I especially like the new man-in-the-loop mechanics. Weapons such as Walleye ER and SLAM now feel much more realistic because the pilot can launch from stand-off range, reposition safely and guide the weapon onto the final target.
Thank you for acknowledging the current imbalance between Red and Blue air defence systems instead of simply nerfing every SAM. Strong air defence is what makes SEAD gameplay meaningful.
I’m also very excited about the future plans you mentioned. Player-controlled SAM systems, helicopters, historical scenarios, new BR ranges and larger operations sound like exactly the direction War Thunder should take. These features could make teamwork much more important and give every player a unique battlefield role.
One suggestion would be to continue improving AI behaviour and eventually introduce logistics elements such as relocating SAM batteries, protecting support vehicles and dynamic front lines. These systems would make modern operations even more immersive.
Please keep developing Escalation. It already feels like the foundation for the future of modern War Thunder, and I would rather see it continue evolving than become just another event. Thank you for taking the time to communicate with the community.
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Modern military equipment should be balanced not only by statistics, but also by doctrine and battlefield role. Different systems were designed for different missions, and Escalation is the perfect place to let those differences shine instead of forcing everything into the same gameplay style.
2 Likes
I strongly disagree with you saying SEAD/DEAD isnt satisfying when completed atm. Yes its hard to do, but the moment I knock out a Buk-M3 site and can finally breathe easier on a flank is such a satisfying moment. Clearing multiple Buk sites on a flank and being able to fly at alt is a stellar feeling as well.
My main gripes with AA in the current iteration are:
- SAMP/T just doesnt compete with Buk properly (since SAMP/T is poorly modelled and hard nerfed)
- Buk has that unrealistically idiotic 70km lock range for the missile so its way harder to shake off of gives me a freaking headache.
That aside though, I think the AA are in a decent spot in difficulty to take out (ill admit when i had less experience fighting them I was getting discouraged though) and feel very satisfying to take out.
I really, really hope someone at Gaijin reads this. I play War Thunder, DCS, and other games like it exclusively, so I hope I can provide a more “wiser” approach/addition,.
Currently, its not just how difficult it is to destroy Red’s SPAA’s and in general, penetrate their air defenses, its actually quite possible. The problem is, using traditional tactics of firing off an ARM while baiting the Buk just isn’t possible. The games limit on TGP distance makes it impossible to use GNSS weapons at effective stand off range (the TGP stabilization sliding around past 30km). So players are forced to fly incredibly low, and pop up and throw GBU-39s into the TADS, and hope for the target to be destroyed. The issue with this is, its almost impossible for the attacker to survive such an attack, and given the death of the TADS, while insurmountably valuable to the team, barely rewards the actual attacker. A single TADS may give 5k SL at most with premium account… however the aircraft costs 10-15k SL to spawn. So not only is it incredibly difficult, its barely rewarding, if not, actually a net negative for the player. I think a better implementation of this is a mechanic that rewards players based off of the “threat level” of said AA. If the player destroys a 2S6, or a Shilka, sure, the current rewards are fine. However, a Buk is significantly harder to destroy, so as such, should be justly rewarded.
Also, emphasize importance on trying to make it back from the sortie alive, players…well, we are lazy. We’ll do whatever it takes to get it done as quickly as possible. Creating some kind of incentive to RTB would reduce this.
Furthermore, and on both sides, the aircraft still feel really, really close. Expanding the maps so that true BVR engagements can take place would be wonderful. It’ll also give players more “staging room” to set up SEAD/DEAD/CAS/ASuW missions, promoting teamwork. I also think that the map spawns are so close, it incentives spawn camping indirectly. Its currently way to easy, for both sides, to sit above each others airfields, and fire down on “free kills” below. Players with that low of an energy state as one would have after take off, can not feasibly defend.
Finally, the map itself isn’t the greatest. For its purpose, it does work well. But the cloud base is to thick, for both sides, and its much to low. It shouldn’t be a clear sky, but allow some variations in weather, given the length of the match, or at least thin the clouds out a bit. Also, the mal desperately needs more cover. Whether its some kind of large mountain or hills in the middle of the map, or a deep canyon, I don’t really know, thats for you to decide. It’ll help prevent missiles fired from the Buks and other such long range munitions from destroying aircraft immediately after take off.
(Also, side note, in the future, can we possibly see AI ground targets, that actually feel like they are engaging in a true battle? Currently its MBTs drive along the road with escorts, shoot at stuff for a bit, then die. I’d like to see little ambient effects, like hearing radio chatter and calls for air support while flying over some kind of infantry ground battle, and MBTs moving to more strategic locations, forcing players to actually find and destroy them, otherwise they start losing tickets to a well positioned MBT. I think another good way to drive up player interests is to make another cinematic, like the one used on April Fools. This time explaining a little bit more “lore” behind the battle, just to make it that bit more unique)
Mode so broken and update so premium heavy, they retrieved the password of bvvd account and posted an article. Keep up the pressure guys!
Yes, I can also take them out, but the strategies that work are shallow and uninteresting. Im hoping for more diversity in gameplay. The large SAM sites should obviously be harder to take out, but right now even the small sites are unreasonably difficult, and respawn so quickly your efforts are a waste.
Hunting the big SAM sites is basically the only thing i do, i have very little interest in PVP. But in my opinion the current implementation is shallow and boring.
This would be huge
Also, more fixed AA and less SPAA. Bring on the S-125M!
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this is Bvvd saying it himself I don’t think he cares what the CC are saying
My Man, right now it’s about the Fact that NATO SAM is generally a Pushover in Nuclear Escalation. I’ve played over a Dozen Rounds, and the Russian Faction was always the Victor. NATO lost every Time. The only Times where I wasn’t launched on by a BUK when taking off, was when I spawned at the Main Airfield, where I instead got launched on by 3 Su-30SM2 sitting at 10-15Km Altitude not long after Takeoff
you just gave me an Idea thank you sir