Now With the M1 being Brought to 10.7, Can We Finally Receive M833?

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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1504

We can talk when you lose the “B-b-but what about turret ring” attitude.

I doubt I’ll ever call something to be uncompetitive while I’m keeping up with stats that other contemporaries had achieved. If M774 was such a bad round you would struggle to make kills, if M1’s armor was so bad you would struggle to survive and win most engagements, which would directly impact your stats.

You’re now talking about a performance in a single game, meanwhile I’m pointing at your stats from 50-100+ battles, and that heat map has stats from several thousand of battles. Nowhere do I see that M1 struggles.

You form your personal opinions by playing the game. In order to see something is bad and struggling you’d have to perform much worse in said vehicle than with it’s contemporaries, which you don’t.
Either M1 isn’t struggling or you somehow fail to extract the full potential from it’s multiple contemporaries, which is hard to believe.

It’s okay if you want your vehicles to be accurate, but you need to realize that accuracy might increase it’s BR. That being said, M1 in it’s current state is totally fine at 10.7.

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1505

By this the ariete and the leclerc are completely fine or in some ways overperforming. Are you going to tell me those two tanks don’t need buffs?

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1506

I was talking about how he creates his personal opinions.
Also, I do believe an average person would perform worse in Ariete/Leclerc than in 2A7/BVM/122+, but this is obviously not seen by Gaijin because two former ones are a part of a minor nation, which arguably have better players on average so their true state is masked by that.

Now I have a question for you, do you believe players of US (which is a highly popular major nation by the way) at 10.7 are staying above average, skill wise, for years in order to keep M1 higher than it should be ?

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1507

Ah, that would make a world of difference.

1508

That’s neat, too bad everyone and their brother just shoots the turret/turret ring :T

And honestly, when was the last time you ran the M1. Go run it for like 15 matches and post how it goes on the M1 alone.

T-80B casually eating M774 to the side

Had to post it to YouTube as the forum won’t allow me to directly add the video but yeah, here’s M774 for ya. Guess who doesn’t have their rounds eaten by a slight tap of the track? LITERALLY every other nation. I’ve lost count on the number of max up-tiers I get and I can tell you, M774 does NOT go far unless you manage a flank and even then, that’s a maybe.

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1510

I said ignoring the Russians b/c of how many inexperienced players are just SPAMMING the absolute bejesus out of the Russian premiums, so it isn’t an accurate representation of what those vehicles are.

If you want to argue about the Russians stats, I’m apparently a freaking god at the T-72 TURMS because my K/D ratio is 1.8 v the average of 1.31… Again, the Russians are gonna do worse when you have a complete premium lineup that inexperienced players are running and leaving after 1/2 deaths with 0 kills. Want a good example of what 10.3 Russia is, look at DINFIRE’s post of his team and my breakdown of what the players were right under it. AGAIN, it goes back to understanding what the stats are saying and how it applies in game.

I love how you, yet again, ignored how every other nation’s MBTs except the Leopard 2A4 literally performs leagues better than the M1 (which are tanks it fights constantly). Nor does this show the usual up-tier/down-tier that we all get. Maybe the KVT gets down-tiered more, idk as the open-source data pull from servers doesn’t have that. But I can 100% tell you that in an up-tier, the M774 does NOT give a good enough performance for what it has to fight (and God forbid anybody else have to go through the grind I did have M735 in game after game of max up-tier). That’s not including you literally have 0 gameplay experience in it, so what’s your argument based off of other than random numbers which aren’t detailed? It’s not like it gives survival rate, RP/SL gained from capture points and eating rounds, how it’s usually used, etc.

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1511

  1. So you admit defeat on this point because you are physically incapable of answering the question. Got it. It’s expected behavior from you, frankly.

  2. I haven’t played it nor the KVT since the uptier, just to point that out. Rounding back it’s perfectly logical to still do well in an underperforming tank AND still hold the stance that it’s underperforming and needs fixing, especially if the stance is objectively correct.

  3. Partial throwaway comment that holds relative merit. I could be more relative by mentioning something like the R3, but I would like to believe you get the point.

  4. I’ll be the first to point out I don’t TryHard in this game, as I see no merit to it. Having said that, again I can perform fine in a vehicle that itself underperforms and hold the stance that the vehicle underperforms. It would be asinine to play something that is genuinely lacking and say that it’s fine, like the Type 93 for example.

  5. Yes, I’m aware of that. I advocate that we need a higher BR ceiling for ground - Like around 15.0BR - for proper decompression. Something we all know Gaijin is allergic to, unfortunately.

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1512

No the skill expectaion is still there but the new player base does not have it. Premium hurt the experience needed. And when i had grind the US line every gun had low pen for what it would face. It forces players to aim for barrels then flank, or for the tiger 1h hit the cupola.

Because of this I’ve always fond the US tt a bit frustrating but rewarding.

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1513

That argument works on literally every vehicle in the game, just shoot at their weakspot bro.

Nothing really changed from when I was playing it, I was also using M774 against hordes of 2A4s and T-series tanks. It performed just fine.

This isn’t M774’s issue, it’s a volumetric mess and will happen with any round in the game and with any tank in the game. I’ve had Leopard’s side fuel tanks eat top tier shells like it’s nothing. At some point you have to learn how to deal with it.

Vehicles should be struggling against enemies a whole BR above them, don’t see a problem in that. Also, if you struggle to kill things from a flank, that’s entirely your problem.

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1514

Only thing I’ll admit is that you’re incapable of having a discussion over the armor profile, because the only thing you’re focused on, for some reason, is the turret ring.

Yet again, nothing really changed with that “uptier”, everything moved up by a notch and you’re still facing 2A4s, 80Bs, etc, etc…
On what basis are you thinking your vehicle is underperforming at it’s current BR if it’s performing up to par with it’s contemporaries ?

It doesn’t matter if you’re tryharding or not, you could have 0.3 or 30 K/D since what matters is the relative performance to other similar tanks.
Once again, using a round that people here think isn’t even decent for the tier would make you do less kills overall, and using a vehicle that people here think has really bad armor would make you get stomped often, thus negating you possible kills. Combine these two together and it’s obvious your K/D will struggle, doesn’t matter if you try or not.

We agree that this game should benefit from increasing it’s maximum BR.
But that’s wishful thinking so I’m talking about current state of the game and I nowhere can see how/why M1 should be struggling at it’s current BR.

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1515

I said ignoring the Russians b/c of how many inexperienced players are just SPAMMING the absolute bejesus out of the Russian premiums, so it isn’t an accurate representation of what those vehicles are.

This is cherrypicking unless you have some tangible evidence to prove otherwise. I could equally say that KVT players are very bad and spamming it as per the battle numbers there and their inexperience is lowering the KVTs performance. You do not have any evidence for the argument you are trying to make, it is a spurious claim.

If you want to argue about the Russians stats, I’m apparently a freaking god at the T-72 TURMS because my K/D ratio is 1.8 v the average of 1.31… Again, the Russians are gonna do worse when you have a complete premium lineup that inexperienced players are running and leaving after 1/2 deaths with 0 kills. Want a good example of what 10.3 Russia is, look at DINFIRE’s post of his team and my breakdown of what the players were right under it. AGAIN , it goes back to understanding what the stats are saying and how it applies in game.

See above, zero evidence for this claim. This is entirely your subjective opinion based on ancedotes.

I love how you, yet again, ignored how every other nation’s MBTs except the Leopard 2A4 literally performs leagues better than the M1 (which are tanks it fights constantly).

No they do not. The M1 compared to its other contemporaries at 10.7 is performing above average. Of the main three nations the US 10.7 MBTs are performing better than the german and soviet MBTs at that BR.

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Nor does this show the usual up-tier/down-tier that we all get.

Absolutely irrelevant because all 10.7 vehicles are subject to the same up-tiers and down-tiers. The data shown includes all of those and the US MBTs are still above average.

Maybe the KVT gets down-tiered more

Zero evidence for this claim.

But I can 100% tell you that in an up-tier, the M774 does NOT give a good enough performance for what it has to fight (and God forbid anybody else have to go through the grind I did have M735 in game after game of max up-tier).

Anecdotal opinion. Others who are more skilled than you within this thread have provided opposing anecdotes. Data is inclusive of uptiers and downtiers for all 10.7s and the M1 is still above average regardless.

That’s not including you literally have 0 gameplay experience in it, so what’s your argument based off of other than random numbers which aren’t detailed?

My argument is based off the data we have available, the actions that gaijin have taken in regards to the M1, anecdotes within this thread, anecdotes from friends who play the M1 and my own anecdotal experience playing against the M1. Which is a lot more than what you are using given you are essentially only relying on your own and some others anecdotal experiences.

It’s not like it gives survival rate, RP/SL gained from capture points and eating rounds, how it’s usually used, etc.

Correct gaijin have access to all statistics, and with those statistics it is evident that they believe the M1 is currently performing within expectations at its BR of 10.7 as they have not moved it or changed it for a long period of time. If performance were to decrease or increase beyond what was acceptable they would move it.

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1516

This is probably the only downside of stat-based balancing. They can’t be sure every nation will have equal average skill, especially for less popular nations that aren’t often played as a starter, so average skill among the players there will indeed be higher. This is why most suffering minor nations’ tanks are going under the radar for a long, long time. That being said, I believe average skill of US/GER/USSR players is lower than those of minor nations.

What vehicle(s) are you talking about ?
I’ve never had issues penetrating frontal armor of most things, except in a Jumbo lol.

I found nothing frustrating in being the one that’s getting his shot off first because of stabilization at lower speeds, sniping their gunner while their barrel still points to the moon. Only frustrating US area are those higher tier heavies, but heavies in general have an issue in this game, at least from my experience playing the TT.

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1517

The m3 75 has had an increase in pen. Around the introduction of volumetric. And many tanks have had there br change. That said the Tiger’s use to have a lower br and the m4a2 would go against panthers and tigers alot. Around the time i was grind the TT i had also preferred using the 75 because the 76 had a ridiculously large deviation of its fire. I would shoot one side of the tank and the shell would hot the track on the other side. All of theses are fixed now. They have even changed the way the stabilizer works now.

So I’m taking it as your taking about the current state of the game.

1518

Yeah I think I stormed through US TT about a year or so ago. Nothing that I’ve touched seemed bad, except those high tier heavies and maybe M3A3 Bradley, that thing didn’t impress me at all.

Back to the topic, I still have to see any evidence that M1 is struggling, or as some people in here like to think, the absolute worst MBT at 10.7 lol.

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1519

  1. Continuing to argue in a further circle you started is utterly pointless so it’s a dead end. Moving on.

  2. Plenty changed with the uptier - It now fights more opponents in a max uptier that 774 is next to utterly worthless against. The basis has always been that the M1 fights certain opponents(Russia) that have overperforming armor whilst the M1 has underperforming armor and maintains using a shell that was underperforming even at 10.3 compared to its contemporaries, and still underperforms compared to its contemporaries.

Fix the armor. Fix the damage model. Give it M833 and then I’ll accept that the vehicle isn’t underperforming. Only then will I accept any arguments about the " Skill Issue " of USA players.

  1. How much effort one puts in does have merit, as Gaijin made it known that many players tend to play without the game volume on. Sound is a massive deal in WT for situational awareness, and hampering it hampers what kind of effort you could put in. There’s also graphic settings that influence it as well as Internet connection and general PC/laptop performance. All of those variables alongside the players’ own knowledge, reflexes and general ability play a role in the game and while all of the above CAN help them still perform in an underperforming vehicle, it IS NOT a guarantee. That is also all provided they don’t just hang the vehicle up after deciding it sucks after playing a few battles.

It’s quite easy to beat an enemy team full of situationally unaware drones even in a complete junk vehicle, but that doesn’t mean the vehicle is good by any metric. You seemingly keep choosing to ignore that factoid.

  1. Fair, though I don’t see why you’re having such difficulty understanding that the M1 IS struggling. It doesn’t need to have a fully bottomed out K/D ratio just to prove it. Look at the vehicle model. The DM. The armament. THOSE things are incomplete and lackluster. That’s where it struggles. Those things SHOULD have been fixed ages ago. Gaijin refusing to is simply malicious behavior.
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1520

The fact that this guy still doesn’t understand that nothing changed in a full uptier because it’s the same vehicles is wild

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1521

Fair thing. When you actually want to discuss armor profiles we can talk, until then you can keep spamming M1 buzzwords.

Vast majority of old 11.7 got moved up as well so basically you’re fighting same stuff you did before.

It’s perfectly normal to have flaws when compared to contemporaries. Vehicle having pros/cons makes it balanced in the end.

If you play without sound, you’ll play without sound with M1 just as you will with 2A4/80B/TURMS/…, so nothing changed in the end.

They can perform, but at a lesser degree than in vehicle’s contemporaries that aren’t underperforming.

I doubt other nations (especially minor ones) have any more drones than US does, so you’re bound to play against drones in any vehicle you take out, which returns us to square one.

As I said above, vehicle is allowed to have it’s cons and that’s perfectly fine. M1 alongside it’s contemporaries all have strong and weak points.

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1522

Brother, it’s not even full max uptier that will pit you against tanks that are near impossible to pen as you the T90A is 11.0, Type 90s and TKX are 11.3, etc. Those are things you fight VERY commonly that can one tap you through the M1s entire front but not vice versa (which are all post M900 production date). Though, it’s funny how you said you were fighting the own BR and lower but not the uptiers on top of having no recent gameplay of it. Saying that because, if you didn’t know, server replays can be searched by player name. The British line doesn’t have Abram so curious when your last experience was with it.
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1523

Let’s see, out of the 16 MBTs at (now) 10.7, the M1 outdoes 1 in Win Rate, 5 in frags per battle and 4 in frags per death. Do tell, how is in the bottom third in performance “above average”? Also, by doing some math, the average MBT Win Rate is 56.76%, average MBT frag per battle is 2.4 and average MBT frag per death is 2.09. ~sarcastically~ Maybe English and numbers aren’t my thing but those are ALL above what the M1_Abram reads on that stat chart. Yeah, and all other 10.7 BR vehicles have better rounds starting off and would ya look at that, most DO better and shown in the stats you posted.

Brother, I’ve also fought the M1 plenty and it’s EASY to knock out because the Russians get 3BM42, a round literally designed to counter the M1 and can pen the cheek even up to 2000 meters… Also, it’s a Russian company that moved to Germany, Cyprus and Hungary. For those who have played since 2013, there’s obvious bias toward the Russians and this is someone who has also ran the Russian tree plenty.

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1524

Of the 16 MBTs (15 if you omit the TT M1) the KVT is above 9 MBTs (10 if you count the M1) in kills per death, it is is above 9 MBTs if you go by kills per battle. It is above 6 (7 if you count the M1) for win rate. M1 lags behind in all departments which is most likely attributed to stock grind which the KVT is not subject to.

The KVT is, however, the exact same vehicle as the M1. It is just a spaded tech tree M1. The M1 is performing above average compared to other 10.7 MBTs, especially compared to the other two mainly played nations (USSR, Germany).

As gaijin has not moved the M1 in BR for an extended period of time, this evidences that it is currently performing adequately at its current BR by their metrics and internal statistics which they have the full picture of. If its performance alters in the future it will be moved if gaijin deem it appropriate.

In the meantime you can submit a bug report if this bothers you so badly however I can tell you now it will very likely be rejected because these bug reports have been filed before.

M1 Abrams Missing M833 APFSDS // Gaijin.net // Issues

And unsurprisingly the reason for rejection is exactly what multiple people have quoted to you earlier in this thread: That available shells are one of the mechanisms by which gaijin balances vehicles and simply because the vehicle could use a shell does not mean it will receive it if the developers do not see a current requirement to do so (because it is currently performing adequately where it is).

Best of luck.

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