I think some of the trouble might be from how you worded your title, as everything in the whole area moved up in BR, but what I got from it later on was you saying “since it can no longer fight 9.3s”(which really is the only thing it can pen reliably and only if it’s not Russian)
(I also don’t know how to ping someone in general so I replied to a random message of yours)
Totally valid criticism.
I concede that yes, T72 TURMS went up, T72B, all of them decompressed, but they all have rounds that perform stupidly well, so much that they trump the M774 round by minimum 50mm of penetration, not to mention spalling effects.
Not at all, I just meant to portray that I’m open minded and if you have a good argument then it should easily be able to change my mind, how ever the random slander seems to mean you don’t have one, and I should ask someone else for a better opinion.
I am not lazy I simply just don’t have to time for it some random on a forum about a silly tank game.
That’s wonderful well if you have an open mind all the arguments are all still there from whoever posted them and will save bloating this thread further with needless repetition.
Again I have no time to read through 400+ messages just for a chance there’s one person with an actual argument.
You bloviated a lot.
Keep it succinct, what is unreasonable or unrealistic about giving the M1 and M1 KVT the M833 round? 100 words or less.
You can do that.
Another funny thing is centurion Mark 3 shot mk3 has more pen out of the 20 pounder/84mm than m774 out of the 105 I do acknowledge that m774 is Finn stabilized but it’s only slightly faster than shot Mk3. Shot Mk3(1,430 m/s) m774 (1509m/s)
(I just think it’s funny I’m not using it to support either side) I also acknowledge that m774 is heavier and has a faster reload out of the m1 774 is also a Long rod apfsds round and acts differently on angles in apds
The M833 isn’t even that great of a round to begin with either, stuff at 9.0 has much better rounds, so why can’t the M1 get it?
At best it would make it equivalent and at worst it wouldn’t change a damn thing.
Even though that isn’t the full story as the M774 round is clearly better, it’s still is quite funny to not only laugh at how dumb Gaijins pen formula is but also how yeah, it really does have more flat pen.
If you wanna have another one to laugh at, look at the APCR for the Russian 100mm gun and compare it to it’s own APHE round.
Only on flat angles iirc. It’s actually historical too. Apds were generally ‘slug’ type subcalibre rounds with greater punch, but significantly worse normalization, resulting in low angled performance and shattering and whatnot. Good to punch through monolithic plates, bad for everything else.
You can see similar patterns in early apfsds rounds like M735, 3bm8, 15, and 22. Not surprisingly, these apfsds rounds share a similar ‘slug’ style of penetrator.
Yeah that’s why I’m not using it as an endorsement of either side. The pen of shot mk 3 is 384 and m774 is 372 the d10t 100mm apcbc br412d-239
Apds 3bm-8 336
Good to know, I had no idea that was even a thing.
Thank you.
also explains why the conquer has 500mm of pen (at least somewhat)
Gaijin doesn’t have a pen formula, they use lanz odermatt. It’s a totally valid calculation.
NO THEY DON’T.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
They use RHA equivalence to mimic the Lanz Odermatt.
They can’t do Lanz-Odermatt calcs in this engine because they’d need to model every material in the composite blocks and that isn’t possible.
Unfortunately I don’t know what that is, I just heard they use some weird formula that does some really weird stuff sometimes.
Wut. It’s a static calculation. Of course they aren’t calculating everything on the fly in game. They still use LO to determine penetrative statistics for various angles.
If you wanted to sound smarter, you’d have brought up that LO can’t account for multi-part penetrators and that a lot of rounds past M829 and including 3bm42 are multipart. So pretty much every modern round is underperforming compared to irl.
Of course they use simplifications for everything, it’s the only way to keep shit sane and with some parity in method across rounds.
The Lanz-Odermatt calculation is used to measure the density of current modern rounds against modern NERA components.
It involves everything from angle of attack, to velocity, to round deformation, and armor degradation.
It takes dedicated engines HOURS of computing power to simulate these round strikes.
The Dagon engine couldn’t touch this with a ten foot pole.
That’s really neat, and very good to know, thank you.
I already know that and brought it up in my Tiktoks.
It’s why DM23 pens upper front plate of 11.3 M1A1 and 12.0 M1A2s.
When in reality the slug would deform and ricochet off.
You’re welcome.