M774 is an absolutely useless round for the BR of 10.7, in a downtier it’s alright since you are fighting things you can pen with some leeway but anything it’s own BR and higher with an ouce of armour needs relatively precise aiming just to disable, that brings me onto the second point, the spalling of M774 is downright mediocre.
The addition of M833 would not be a generous decision, it would be a necessary one, most or all of it’s contemparies have the superior 120mm DM23, 3BM42, 105mm DM63, L26, with some (Object 292) having a 12.0 round in ‘152mm APFSDS’.
¯\__(ツ)__/¯
Spalling is somewhat proportional to the round’s mass.
M774 is 3.4kg, whereas M735 is 3.72kg.
Spoiler
M833 would help out, as it has slightly more pen, and weighs more.
As you said. Downtiers 774 is usable. Even at even tier it is passable-ish, but it inhabits the same BR as you mentioned.
And then there’s the fact that other posters who have lauded the IPM1 as one of the strongest contestants in its BR are ignoring that the tank uses the same 833 105mm round as a 1st-level APFSDS upgrade.
So what’s to stop it from being included as a fourth-tier upgrade for the M1?
To my knowledge, nothing except the arguments presented by similar forumites who declare it to “be best tank” and “high skill ceiling” compared to “low skill floor” T-series tanks with easily 50mm more penetration power, plus ERA liberally applied across the boards.
I’m in a similar mindset. It’s rather telling that the person others laud as their example of “how good M1 is” isn’t even playing the game regularly these days.
If they can achieve the same results as them, then I would be persuaded to believe them.
So in lieu of actual playing, we got ourselves a bunch of naysayers who won’t play, but will claim they have in the last few days played enough to say the M1 is “just fine”.
And lo when someone like necrons tells you the vehicle is very good and points to his very high stats in it you just dismiss it anyway.
Almost as if you intend to dismiss anyone pointing out how wrong you are from the offset and you’ll just use any excuse you can conjure regardless of how poor it is.
A common trait of the disingenuous US mains.
Actually for that matter MotorolaCRO has very good stats in the M1 too at around 4K/D. Guess he doesn’t know what he’s talking about either.
This is made even better by the fact that Motorola mains USSR and does notably better in US vehicles at the same tier.
Must just be because the US vehicles are so bad and he’s got russian bias.
And in that sentence I can deduct that you didn’t read my little rant, I ground the entire Japan ground tree using the buggy mess that is M735, there is nothing I wanted more during that grind than DM23/33.
Which makes up for it with mobility similar to that of a wheeled vehicle over most terrains in game; While playing the Type 16, i was consistenly running into XM-1s that had progressed far across the map than their teammates, however since I cannot stand M735 in it’s current state I agree that the devs should give the XM-1s an M774 round or another 105mm dart that fills the gap
9.3 before the BR update was consistently uptiered to 10.3, that is where M735 becomes unbearable, it lacks the raw penetration to consistently kill Leopards, Abrams, T-series and other MBTs at the BR within their frontal arcs, then furthermore lack the post-penetration effect to ‘1 shot’ them
I don’t think much has changed since the time I played US at 10.3 (at that time). I also had to face flocks of 2A4s and T-series tanks just like you have to now, and from my experience I didn’t have problems dealing with any enemy from any angle, hence I don’t see an issue with M1 keeping M774.
You are preaching to the choir when it comes to the US tech tree as well, nobody likes M735 after it’s ahistorical nerf, once again, you still seem to be trying to spin this as I dislike or do not want this change in the case of Japan, no, Japan should be the standard everyone else should be held to.
Yet at the same time, the Type 16s sport CITVs, gen three thermals, a lower top speed, and better gunner sight magnification. However, we can go on and on and on trying to compare the minutiae of each vehicle, and such applies to every single tank in the game, yet, at the end of the day, you can have the fastest brick of armor on the planet, but if you cant kill anything that speed is worthless.
I would be more than fine with M774 on the XM-1 GM, but as we have already well established, M774 is incidentally one of the middle to low end rounds at 9.3. If anything I would rather the Type 16s to get Type 93 and the XM-1 GM to get M833 as such are the high end rounds at 9.3, with the likes of DM33 and M426 existing at 9.3 already. Reminder as well that M833 has inferior performance to DM33, M426 and Type 93.
Yet, that is still in the past, historical BRs have no bearing on the current game balance. The Stryker is 10.3 now and that is a fact, comparing it to the early Type 16s is a moot point as it is not the reality that is WT now.
Some tanks receive buffs in order to not drop in BR.
Giving M833 to M1 would surely push it to 11.0 which is something I don’t like personally, I think it’s better for it to stay where it is at currently with M774.
I don’t feel like I’m a main of any country, at least when talking about Ground. In Air I’ve only researched USSR tree so yeah.
In my opinion, problem with US at top tier comes from experienced players moving away to other nations that had something new and exciting added to them (T-90M, 2A7, 122B+). People quickly get sick of yet another M1A2 copy that has no new, usable features.
Firstly, I can respect that you don’t think you main USSR in any Ground tree.
Same here.
But you can see how readily USSR vehicles complement my playstyle versus your own.
That and Japanese and French tanks, which of course need their own massaging in model wise and in engine torque.
I grasp you think it should go up in BR if it is given M833, but I disagree based on the fact that the M1 as it is (and its premium KVT) are barely armored enough to stop even rounds that are at its newly-given tier, and most times it still won’t hold up against most of them.
I could begrudge the USSR tree for having perfect ERA, but it’s a parity I accept.
That’s my argument to add the M833 for the M1 and M1 KVT and keep them at the new 10.7 line.
Parity.
Others here have sh*t on that idea because whatever reasons they come up with, but for the average player who wants to enjoy the game, I feel it’s only right to give them the tools available to enjoy the game. Top it off with the fact that the M1 did historically carry the 833 round, and it feels like a obvious yes.
This won’t be fighting its T64A or T72 counterparts because those are down at 9.3. Its fighting contemporaries that are built in the 90s.
The difficulty that some individuals have in understanding that if everything moved up by 0.3 relative to each other, nothing moved at all relative to each other is wild.
Frightening almost.
Many US players agreed that M833 should have been implemented even when the round first dropped, and most especially after M900 was added to IPM1.
The M1IP and M1A1 utilized the newer turret style. The old M1 relied on “good enough” turret armor until the 120 and new turret could be brought up.
Historically, M1s carried M833 in quantity from 1984 onwards. Considering what they face in the current meta, it’s enough for me to say yes, now is the time.
