Now With the M1 being Brought to 10.7, Can We Finally Receive M833?

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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1598

Again, this is a video game and not real life combat. It’s more important to have balance than historical accuracy and M1s used M774 as well.

You still fail to understand that vehicle’s ammo is just a single part of the vehicle’s overall performance.
Not all vehicles at a given BR should have ammo with equal performance. Just like not all vehicles at a given BR should have equal mobility, gun handling, reload speed, gun depression, etc.

I’m glad you mentioned Leopards and TTS.
TTS’ direct equal in German TT should be Leopard A1A1 because they share the same BR, obviously. In this case, TTS has thermals, better round, LRF and ERA meanwhile German counterpart has only mobility going for it.
The same works if you compare it with USSR’s contemporary, which is T-62M-1.

Once again buddy, this is a game, not some real life combat. In WT what matters is the BR, not some date of introduction.
After this becomes clear to you, you’ll suddenly get more than enough logical arguments against it.

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1599

Whether or not it’s a combat simulator is irrelevant. Constantly repeating it doesn’t make it relevant.

Please, tell me how the RISE P or TTS are so superior to the other tanks at their BR range that they need an ammo nerf.

Once again, saying this is a game isn’t an argument. You have none.

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1600

The very fact Gaijin is adding/removing shells from vehicles as they seem fit is a proof balance comes before anything else, rounds are just another way of balancing things. Me repeating it is just out of courtesy, because you seem unable to understand this simple thing.

There are four medium tanks at 9.0 that have stronger rounds than M774 and those are 120mm L23, Type 93 and 3BM28. Two of those are found on tanks that have longer reloads than TTS.
There are six medium tanks at 9.0 that have weaker rounds than M774.

I already told you what TTS does better than Leopard A1A1.
T-62M-1 has worse gun handling, gun depression, reload speed and no thermals. No commander override as well.
Type 74s have worse gun depression, optics and no thermals.
Chinese TTS has no ERA and a worse shell.
ZTZ88s have worse gun handling, gun depression, optics, reload speed, no thermals and a worse shell. No commander override as well.
OF-40 Mk.2A has no thermals and a worse shell.
Magach 6M has worse optics and a worse shell.

As you can see, TTS is better in various metrics when compared to it’s contemporaries, M833 is far from needed.

Sorry but obviously both me and Gaijin think differently.

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1601

You’re ignoring a lot of benefits for the tanks you listed.

The T-62M has better armor, two better APFSDS rounds, better HEATFS, and gun launched ATGMs.

The Leopard 1A5 and C2A were at the same BR as the TTS for years, despite being objectively better vehicles. I’d take M833 for the .3 BR bump.

Type 74 E has a laser range finder, thermals and the Type 93 APFSDS.

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1602

This is all totally off-topic. The balance of the TTS and other vehicles at its BR have no bearing on this topic.

Would be better to make a separate thread for that lest this one devolve and get locked.

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1603

Type 74s have better mobility.
Chinese TTS is 900kg lighter and will have 0.2 HP/t more.
ZTZ88s have better mobility.
OF-40 Mk.2A have better gun handling and mobility.
Magach 6M has 0.7 HP/t more.

This happens to this day as well, blame BR compression.

It doesn’t have thermals.

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1604

If we are going to compare vehicles pro and con like this. we should bring out the stat exact number. Either stock or spade. Because sometime some of those stat aren’t that far apart from each vehicles.

And I am going to brings out this again. The 3 main stat are
1.Mobility (HP/tons+reverse speed) M60s patton has mediocre mobility even worst than T-64A except reverse speed. The good news is that most map are small or in urban. But that would also make Thermal advantage redundant. I would argue that Laser range finder are more important than thermal. Especially after they introduce thermal Gen 1,2,3

2.Fire-power (Penetration+Fire rate) M60s has ok power but same tier there are better Darts. with M833 add It wouldn’t change that either

3.Armor (ability to stop round+ERA) M60A3 tts turret are Decent after mantlet fix but against APFSDS/HEAT-FS on main cannon around that BR. it still not somethings to be reliable on. ERA can stop HEAT and ATGM from time to time but that is. if enemy somehow design to shoot HEAT at your ERA They can also aim for weak spot like turret ring or the gap in ERA on mantlet.

Armor would mean a lot more if we’d have Infantry running around shooting rocket at you. But since that isn’t the case in War Thunder . Mobility still remain more viable than Armor.
At this point M833 and 0.3 BR incease for M60s would be ok by me.
also as Casino_Knight point out this is a bit off topic. But i think the stat and pro vs con can be relate.

1 Like
1605

And why don’t they change the Br?
I personally prefer that tanks use the bullets they historically used and that they face tanks from similar eras. It is clear that in some WW2 tanks it would be a problem, but in tanks from the Cold War onwards it would not be so problematic.

1 Like
1606

For 10.7, only the challenger has a 5 second reload.

Type 10 - 7 degrees
ZTZ-99A - 5 degrees
Ariete - 9 degrees
Leclerc - 8 degrees
Merkava - 7 degrees
Only abrams and challenger have -10 degrees at top tier.

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1607

Dates really dont matter in this game, if they were you would have unstabilised M60 and Leopard 1’s against T-64A, doubt anyone would love that.

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1608

The suspension control allows Type 10 to get at least -12 degrees of gun depression.
Everything else is correct.
-10 degrees of gun depression is above average, but nothing too crazy.

1609

oh yeah, forgot about that, my bad

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1610

US TTS at 9.3? It will be an inferior version of M48 Super in terms of mobility lol I rather it stayed at 9.0 with M774 as it gets better matchmaking bro

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1611

I mean that further shows my point. Gaijin does not treat US tanks the same as it treats other tanks. If the M1 was German or Soviet, it would have M833.

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1612

Fair but that’s my point, we have it using the round it originally came out with, which was dated even when it came out, fighting tanks FAR past the retirement age with rounds that completely negate the armor (which is a huge thing at that BR). It’d be different if the M1 could at least punch back but even with the slightest of uptiers, the M773 is effectively useless unless you manage to get a flank off (which, most of the maps don’t allow you to get a good one).

1 Like
1613

There’s shouldn’t be that much of a difference at 0.3 of a BR shift…

1614

That’s why I think the TTS stays at 9.0 with M774, it shouldn’t go any higher because it will perform worse at 9.3 with M833 than M774 at 9.0 because the mobility lacking so much and the armor already doesn’t work at 9.0, M48 platform was never great to begin with, 9.0 you will face mostly Germany and M735 is more than enough to OHKO them, even funnier since I gotten the M774 my KDR has dropped by .3 lol it seems like the M735 has more OHKO power than the M774? there is some slight weight difference.

It also has thermals at 9.0, T-62M1 doesn’t have it, Chinese T-69IIG didn’t have it, it’s actually perfectly placed now if you asked me, I’ve also learned to use that brain tumor as a bait to lure enemies into shooting it, as long as it is APFSDS they will repeatedly hit the dead commander, which allows my teammates to return fire. Literally turning the negative into positive lol

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1615

Lol what. The same Germany who’s been refused weapon systems over and over and over again despite practically begging for them? Even to a point where the Leopard 2PL is still running around with the never-used DM43, in-spite of using DM53(DM63) in real life instead (same case with the Leopard 2A4M CAN and its KE-W, that it of course, shouldn’t have as the vehicle itself uses DM53A1 in real life), just because it’s doing better than the Click-Bait players?

Gaijin is treating US tanks the same as any other, i.e;

  • if the players are doing horribly, buff
  • if they aren’t, don’t touch

That’s why US has been handed out M829A2 at top tier like it’s candy, and why most of Germany between 9.0 and 12.0 hasn’t been changed in any way for the last 6 months, and why even the objectively inferior vehicles, despite being the same BR, still haven’t been brought up to M1A1 AIM/Click-Baits levels of capability via firepower buffs and other things they could do for them. Heck, your M1A2 has even stayed at 11.7, whereas the Leopard 2A5 & PSO (i.e its direct counterparts) have gone up to 12.0, the latter actually being worse than the 2A5 for direct tank engagements, actually why am I even mentioning Leopard 2s, your M1A2 is lower in BR than the poor Merkava Mk.4s, Leclercs and Chinese MBTs, sitting at the same BR as the Arietes (LOL).

If US (overall) were to be treated like Germany is, your jets would only get ~2 Mavericks at best with no TGP, no new CAS jets for 2 years straight, your “”“top tier”“” CAP jet would be down to 13.0, and your IFV and MBTs would never ever be improved in any way unless it’s something very unimportant for its performance, bah, you’d actually get nerfed in the meantime under the guise of “realism”.

You’re hyper-focused on “the issue” of M833, but should you actually expand your horizon and look at how US is being treated compared to most other nations between 9.0 and 12.0, you’ll notice that in the recent past, they’ve received a lot more buffs than the other “majors”. You’ve even forgotten that you have the M60-120S at 10.3 with M829A1 and 2nd generation thermals, whereas pretty much nobody else has an equivalent for it that is in the TT, even with them not having any TT “near top tier” APFSDS projectiles at such low of a BR.

tl;dr, all I’m hearing is “mimi US sufferz”.

7 Likes
1616

After you write a whole post crying “mimimimi germany suffers” when compared to the USA lmao

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1617

After purchasing the M1 kvt I’m kind of split on this subject, the tank has great mobility and gun handling, armor is decent but not great, the current round seems ok if you’re top br but from my experience that is almost never the case, it’s pretty much guaranteed 11.3-11.7 battles every game, this round is not ideal for facing this br. IMO the Leopard 2A4 is a better tank at 10.7

7 Likes