Ah yes, because the M1 only sees 10.7 and isn’t up-tiered all the time… and do tell, when WAS the last time you played the M1?
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Ahh, that would be nice too
There is a reason. That reason is that M833 should have been added with the M1 since it was launched. No one questions the Leopard 1A5 getting DM33, or the C2A1 getting it, or multiple other vehicles getting M833 equivalent rounds at 9.0 BR. The RISE P and TTS are modeled as the Desert Storm variants. They fired M833 in combat. M833 should be available starting with those tanks, through the IPM1. There is no logical argument against
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Vehicles are balanced with their own BR in mind, suffering in full uptiers is a thing for vast majority of vehicles in this game.
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Again, this is a video game and not real life combat. It’s more important to have balance than historical accuracy and M1s used M774 as well.
You still fail to understand that vehicle’s ammo is just a single part of the vehicle’s overall performance.
Not all vehicles at a given BR should have ammo with equal performance. Just like not all vehicles at a given BR should have equal mobility, gun handling, reload speed, gun depression, etc.
I’m glad you mentioned Leopards and TTS.
TTS’ direct equal in German TT should be Leopard A1A1 because they share the same BR, obviously. In this case, TTS has thermals, better round, LRF and ERA meanwhile German counterpart has only mobility going for it.
The same works if you compare it with USSR’s contemporary, which is T-62M-1.
Once again buddy, this is a game, not some real life combat. In WT what matters is the BR, not some date of introduction.
After this becomes clear to you, you’ll suddenly get more than enough logical arguments against it.
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Whether or not it’s a combat simulator is irrelevant. Constantly repeating it doesn’t make it relevant.
Please, tell me how the RISE P or TTS are so superior to the other tanks at their BR range that they need an ammo nerf.
Once again, saying this is a game isn’t an argument. You have none.
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The very fact Gaijin is adding/removing shells from vehicles as they seem fit is a proof balance comes before anything else, rounds are just another way of balancing things. Me repeating it is just out of courtesy, because you seem unable to understand this simple thing.
There are four medium tanks at 9.0 that have stronger rounds than M774 and those are 120mm L23, Type 93 and 3BM28. Two of those are found on tanks that have longer reloads than TTS.
There are six medium tanks at 9.0 that have weaker rounds than M774.
I already told you what TTS does better than Leopard A1A1.
T-62M-1 has worse gun handling, gun depression, reload speed and no thermals. No commander override as well.
Type 74s have worse gun depression, optics and no thermals.
Chinese TTS has no ERA and a worse shell.
ZTZ88s have worse gun handling, gun depression, optics, reload speed, no thermals and a worse shell. No commander override as well.
OF-40 Mk.2A has no thermals and a worse shell.
Magach 6M has worse optics and a worse shell.
As you can see, TTS is better in various metrics when compared to it’s contemporaries, M833 is far from needed.
Sorry but obviously both me and Gaijin think differently.
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You’re ignoring a lot of benefits for the tanks you listed.
The T-62M has better armor, two better APFSDS rounds, better HEATFS, and gun launched ATGMs.
The Leopard 1A5 and C2A were at the same BR as the TTS for years, despite being objectively better vehicles. I’d take M833 for the .3 BR bump.
Type 74 E has a laser range finder, thermals and the Type 93 APFSDS.
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This is all totally off-topic. The balance of the TTS and other vehicles at its BR have no bearing on this topic.
Would be better to make a separate thread for that lest this one devolve and get locked.
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Type 74s have better mobility.
Chinese TTS is 900kg lighter and will have 0.2 HP/t more.
ZTZ88s have better mobility.
OF-40 Mk.2A have better gun handling and mobility.
Magach 6M has 0.7 HP/t more.
This happens to this day as well, blame BR compression.
It doesn’t have thermals.
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If we are going to compare vehicles pro and con like this. we should bring out the stat exact number. Either stock or spade. Because sometime some of those stat aren’t that far apart from each vehicles.
And I am going to brings out this again. The 3 main stat are
1.Mobility (HP/tons+reverse speed) M60s patton has mediocre mobility even worst than T-64A except reverse speed. The good news is that most map are small or in urban. But that would also make Thermal advantage redundant. I would argue that Laser range finder are more important than thermal. Especially after they introduce thermal Gen 1,2,3
2.Fire-power (Penetration+Fire rate) M60s has ok power but same tier there are better Darts. with M833 add It wouldn’t change that either
3.Armor (ability to stop round+ERA) M60A3 tts turret are Decent after mantlet fix but against APFSDS/HEAT-FS on main cannon around that BR. it still not somethings to be reliable on. ERA can stop HEAT and ATGM from time to time but that is. if enemy somehow design to shoot HEAT at your ERA They can also aim for weak spot like turret ring or the gap in ERA on mantlet.
Armor would mean a lot more if we’d have Infantry running around shooting rocket at you. But since that isn’t the case in War Thunder . Mobility still remain more viable than Armor.
At this point M833 and 0.3 BR incease for M60s would be ok by me.
also as Casino_Knight point out this is a bit off topic. But i think the stat and pro vs con can be relate.
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And why don’t they change the Br?
I personally prefer that tanks use the bullets they historically used and that they face tanks from similar eras. It is clear that in some WW2 tanks it would be a problem, but in tanks from the Cold War onwards it would not be so problematic.
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For 10.7, only the challenger has a 5 second reload.
Type 10 - 7 degrees
ZTZ-99A - 5 degrees
Ariete - 9 degrees
Leclerc - 8 degrees
Merkava - 7 degrees
Only abrams and challenger have -10 degrees at top tier.
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Dates really dont matter in this game, if they were you would have unstabilised M60 and Leopard 1’s against T-64A, doubt anyone would love that.
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The suspension control allows Type 10 to get at least -12 degrees of gun depression.
Everything else is correct.
-10 degrees of gun depression is above average, but nothing too crazy.
oh yeah, forgot about that, my bad
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US TTS at 9.3? It will be an inferior version of M48 Super in terms of mobility lol I rather it stayed at 9.0 with M774 as it gets better matchmaking bro
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I mean that further shows my point. Gaijin does not treat US tanks the same as it treats other tanks. If the M1 was German or Soviet, it would have M833.
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Fair but that’s my point, we have it using the round it originally came out with, which was dated even when it came out, fighting tanks FAR past the retirement age with rounds that completely negate the armor (which is a huge thing at that BR). It’d be different if the M1 could at least punch back but even with the slightest of uptiers, the M773 is effectively useless unless you manage to get a flank off (which, most of the maps don’t allow you to get a good one).
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There’s shouldn’t be that much of a difference at 0.3 of a BR shift…