Top tier decompression helped some nations.
Many US players agreed that M833 should have been implemented even when the round first dropped, and most especially after M900 was added to IPM1.
The M1IP and M1A1 utilized the newer turret style. The old M1 relied on “good enough” turret armor until the 120 and new turret could be brought up.
Historically, M1s carried M833 in quantity from 1984 onwards. Considering what they face in the current meta, it’s enough for me to say yes, now is the time.
Nothing you wrote has anything to do with acknowledging the simple fact that everything above the M1 moved up, everything at the same BR, moved up and a few things below, moved up. So nothing changed aside from it no longer sees 9.3, as is the case with every other 10.3 that got moved to 10.7.
Nothing in essence changed, unless you’re so desperately hopeless that you could only kill 9.3 tanks
The first sentence acknowledged that decompression helped some nations.
None of what you wrote just now speaks about parity, it speaks to your personal feelings about other posters in the forums. I have nothing more for you in regards to those interpersonal feelings.
Parity by giving the M1 the M833 won’t disturb the meta of the current line-ups.
Congratulations on continuing to not address the simple fact made. I know it conflicts greatly with your argument of why the M1 abrams is a special child and should be unduly buffed out of nowhere despite already performing well.
You can regurgitate the word parity all you want but it isn’t some sort of magic word that suddenly makes whatever you’re spouting true for lack of argument.
You continue to ignore that vehicles are a sum of their parts and continue to ignore differences in characteristics between vehicles that allow them to be at the same BR with equal or similar performance despite being stronger or weaker in certain areas.
Be it ignore ignorance wilful or otherwise.
Again, the point was acknowledged. That you decide to ignore it was acknowledged is on you.
You actively admit that parity is achieved by having the M1 face against vehicles developed over a decade after its creation. In point of fact, the M1 was largely mothballed by the time some even saw field service.
There is nothing about special treatment for the M1 in giving it its appropriate round at 10.7.
I don’t begrudge other nations’ vehicles being fixed, I’m pointing out that giving the M1 its proper top tier round would make the tank more enjoyable for the average US player (or any player who plays US, which includes many other nations).
Again, the point was acknowledged. That you decide to ignore it was acknowledged is on you.
It wasn’t, and still hasn’t been. You have not acknowledged it.
You actively admit that parity is achieved by having the M1 face against vehicles developed over a decade after its creation. In point of fact, the M1 was largely mothballed by the time some even saw field service.
Moot point, not worth the time it took to write. Vehicle age is unrelated in balancing and not a factor.
There is nothing about special treatment for the M1 in giving it its appropriate round at 10.7.
There is when you’re asking for an already adequately performing vehicle to be notably buffed without being raised in BR. As myself and others have pointed out to you but you’re too biased to notice your absurdity.
I don’t begrudge other nations’ vehicles being fixed, I’m pointing out that giving the M1 its proper top tier round would make the tank more enjoyable for the average US player (or any player who plays US, which includes many other nations).
And repeating myself for about the third or fourth time. As myself and others have pointed out it can get it’s round but will also get moved up in BR to reflect this. Which you can’t accept because you are biased.
Let me make it even more blunt to you.
The only one who has access to recent and reliable statistics on performance is Gaijin.
Gaijin balance based on the average vehicle performance.
Gaijin has not seen fit to add new ammo or move the BR of the M1 Abrams.
This indicates that Gaijin using the statistics that they have and we don’t consider the performance of the M1 to currently be adequate for it’s BR.
You, my, everybodies feelings are irrelevant. We do not have the data. This is how it is.
It is currently adequate.
Accept it.
Some vehicles suit certain playstyles better, but that doesn’t make them superior in the big picture.
M1 (as every other vehicle) has to have certain disadvantages to remain at it’s BR, that’s balance. Something that’s best in each and every metric when compared to it’s contemporaries surely looks busted.
I don’t mind giving tanks their historical rounds as long as things stay balanced. As I said above, I don’t think US has a major problem with their vehicles in high-top tier, it’s rather the lack of new, cool vehicles to keep veterans interested in the US TT. Of course, all of this is my personal opinion on the whole US issue.
I disagree.
The M833 round is not a lolpen round, it’s simply on par with the rest of those at its given tier.
The M1 is thinly-armored enough that it doesn’t warrant being uptiered to 11.0 if M833 is added.
Gaijin can and has been wrong in the past.
Suggesting improvements for player enjoyment isn’t going to harm them, it can only aid them.
Motorola brought up a good point that players grow tired of the M1s because they have no new toys.
I would say that the M1A1 line up is seen as busted in a bad way and thus players don’t stick around unless they’re determined and can afford it.
Otherwise, why would high skill players consistently go to top tier Germany and top tier Sweden, except to turn off their brains and not feel like they’re struggling uphill against their foes?
EddieVanHalo pointed out this is similar to the Tigers and their win rates being tanked because of easily known hit points. Two series of “useless legends”, as he put it.
Making the legend useful and fun to play isn’t something for you to bemoan. Though you do anyway. And that’s your free choice.
It doesn’t mean I’m required to accept it by your word of mouth, nor anyone else’s.
I think the simple solution is to make the reload longer and give the better round.
I’d also like to see the leo2a4 get DM33 or a reload buff.
Lots of nothing here.
You will accept whatever BR gaijin deigns to keep it at based on their performance statistics.
Nothing less because you have no choice.
Scratch that, you don’t have to accept it at all. Your acceptance doesn’t mean anything though.
I do agree that I think the main issue facing top tier US is lack of “skilled” or veteran players. While the US tech-tree has become stale, I also think its “harder” to play that it use to. A good portion of the community will always go to the “winning” nation. While that’s not exactly a quantifiable item especially since Gaijin doesn’t publish that data.
With a disparity of skill or balance of skill its only going to get worse. This is a video game, and will have a meta of some kind. Right now the meta is not in favor with the US ground. At times and BRs it has, but currently it is not.
I do think a lot of the community ignores the grinding of tanks for their balance. As new players grind into top tier they’ll have an easier time if the grind wasn’t as rough in the Abrams vs the Leo 2 or T-80 it’s main counterparts. The M774 is within a reasonable penetration of the DM23 and 3BM42, though not as reasonable as the M833.
I think with the decompression the M1 at least could either go back down to 10.3 or adjust how soon the M1 gets the M774 round. The grind of the M1 is mostly with the M735 round and its whopping 292mm of pen. The lowest of all MBTs 9.0 and up, even some 8.0 tanks have better penetration compared to this dart. But darts have better energy retention so only compared darts.
At 10.7 the M1 is rarely ever going to see a down tiered, most nations have 1 9.7 tank if none at all. What is going to happen more often is the M1 is going to fight at 10.7 or get up tiered to 11.7. If you need to fight Leo2s and T series tanks with 292 mm of penetration of point blank, you will be hard pressed at ranged maps. If its only on par with the others with the M774 then why bother with the M735 at all? Leos get the DM13 with 393mm of pen and T-80’s 3BM22 doing 425mm of pen.
If three players all start at the same time, the M1 player will need to be “better” at positioning and aiming than the others from the start. This is a higher skill burden for what reason? Why does the M1 and US top tier need to have a higher skill burden to compete than others?
I think having the M735 as your tier 1 dart, M774 tier 2 or 3 round, and M833 tier 4 would make both the grind easier, and lower the skill level needed for the M1. At long range the weak spots on Leo 2 and T-80 turrets would be less, at close range it wouldn’t change anything hull wise.
Also am I not getting the point of the extra 23mm of pen being overpowered? Its still below 400mm which still keeps it well below its counterparts.
Giving it M833 would be a buff and we all know Gaijin likes to buff underperforming vehicles by giving them better rounds or reducing the reload times. I don’t think M1 is underperforming at it’s BR so buffing already strong vehicle doesn’t make sense to me.
Yeah, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
They get new toys but most of the times it’s yet another reskin of M1A2 while remaining functionally the same as previous ones.
At this point US deserves new Abrams that has something new and different, like spall liners or better hull armor for example. I bet a single US MBT would significantly stir up the top tier environment in favor of US.
I think both Tigers and M1s are far more than useful. They have their flaws as any tank should, but they’re far from being bad.
I don’t understand this strange need to see already meta vehicles being buffed further.
Just leave them as they are, they’re in a good spot.
If the M1 gets a buff then the Leo should get a buff also
I didn’t realize the Leo2s were suffering, the German winrates must be lower than 60%.
In my opinion they made a mistake of adding MBTs with spall liners to Germany and Russia without giving it to US as well. Of course people will run away from US in order to try something new and better. Also, in the same update US and UK were the only ones that got high (top) tier premiums in Click-Bait and OES respectively, which surely didn’t help at retaining veterans since playing with a bunch of lvl 10 wallet warriors isn’t exactly fun.
I doubt M1 is a 10.3 material, but I wouldn’t mind seeing M774 as a Tier 2 modification.
Other tanks have their flaws as well, let’s take T-80B as an example.
Someone playing that thing will have to be careful about it’s subpar reverse speed, will have less time to react since gun handling isn’t something to write home about and will have to pick their spots carefully in order to not get screwed by the lack of gun depression.
Everything has it’s burdens, learning how to identify them and successfully work around them is part of the fun, at least for me.
Then so do the Chally Mk3, T-80B, T-72AV, Chally Mk2, Vickers Mk7, etc. and we’re back at square one.
Like I said, things are fine as they are.
Gaijin can implement a Leopard 2A4 C-technologie /w DM33 at 11.0 at a later date.
Are the M1s suffering?
