I care about the German vehicles mostly because that’s the major additions to Sweden. Sweden would be nothing top tier without the strv 122 and the cope mongers claiming its specially Swedish and somehow better than the other leopard 2s. There’s also the issue of Sweden getting more cold-war mbts that are just spam copies.
And you are well aware of the idea that a nation with spammed top tier line ups has a massive advantage at top tier while every other nation in the game becomes more limited. The only reason anyone mentioned Norway for Sweden is because it would add more leopard 2s to Sweden and give them more cold-war vehicles, not because its at all unique or interesting.
If you wanna make suggestions in bulking what Norway has to offer to the game then you can, especially if u can find actually fun Norwegian developments, but as it is now its nothing special and its just cancer. The fact you’re forcing a magical argument like “Norway is 100% a good idea and everyone should agree with me” is ridiculous.
You are also trying to push a k2 for Sweden even though Norway didn’t even want it… Are you gonna give it no ammunition since they didn’t historically have the thing? Strv 122’s only have DM33 and m/95 for a reason dude.
Customized trial variant. You know its there to add some flavor, and it has a better basis to be added than the T-80U currently in game. Id like to lessen the amount of vehicles with dubious basis to be added. This has at the very least a better basis.
Nato compatible, so per Italy its free to do whatever they want.
No i just want a good argument instead of the german cope answer of “oh muh Leopards”.
I dont see how padding out possible vehicles is bad in a suggestion thread. Like people say its bad, and dont explain why it is.
Yes because Gaijin generally favors what ammunition they did buy. And its not like the 122 needed something better than m/95
Also no, people mention Norway for Sweden because it thematically makes sense, and its also where Norway currently is. And there are interesting vehicled together with what is copy-paste to fill out the tech tree or vehicles that could be copy-paste that have yet to be seen in game.
People gave the suggestion because they would like to see some of the Norwegian specific vehicles especially.
If you want them elsewhere, advocate for that i guess. Giving them to Japan would gameplay wise make a lot of sense.
So did the Norway suggestion come before or after everyone suggested Norway’s leopard 2s?
The whole basis of this thread and your argument is that Norway is somehow unique and anyone can look at it and realize its pure cope. I keep repeating my logical argument as it why its bad for the game and keep denying your ridiculous basis of uniqueness and you say I haven’t said an argument?
Did it every occur to you that Norway isn’t actually responsible for making the 2a8NOR or the 2a7NOR or the 2a4NOR or practically most of the vehicles in this suggestion to such an extant as to make them unique?
Like every sub-tree suggestion, there was probably a lot of single vehicle suggestions before the tree one came along. You know you do need to get a baseline for what vehicles to add before making a tree suggestion, right?
You repeat a claim that its bad as far as i can tell, and thats about it. You say its somehow harmful to Germany because of issues the germany tree has. Usually one argues for ones claim if one challanges it.
Yes im aware a lot of the vehicles are derived from other vehicles as expected from minor nations. Countries ordering from companies to make stuff does not detract from the fact its “theirs” In the depiction we will see in game
Tho the Leopard 2A4NO is more unique as far as i can tell compared to the Strv 121 and finnish Leopard 2A4. At least as far as we see them in game.
People have, numerous times, but you just keep deflecing with your “well, that’s [nation]'s problem” cope. Like no shit it’s their problem, you are literally stealing their vehicles.
I bet if you Sweden got a Leclerc you would say “well, it’s the french tech tree’s problem”
Case in point
Not sure if you actually don’t understand the problem or you are just disingenuous. People have no problem with Norwegian modernizations or indigenous vehicles in the subtree, they have problem with copy paste that’s not needed which ultimately would turn Germany’s top tier into “Sweden but worse and less”
While germany gets 1(one) 2A6, 2A7 and 2A8, Sweden gets like 10 of them because of a random country who is geographically close to Sweden
Sweden get 1 2A6, 3 uparmored 2A5, and in the future 1 upgunned and uparmored 2A5. (Sweden supplies 3+1 of those)
Norway supplies the 2A8NO (i dont think the trial 2A7NO is really a worthwhile talking about)
So no, Sweden “gets like 10” because they have 3+1 on their own.
If the French mains were doing the same arguments as the one in this thread, i would be saying that. Because it would be. But id also be here saying they should remove the Leclerc in favor of the K2NO because at least that trial variant i unique. Same way im talking about the T-80U currently in the tree.
Top tier will boil down to the few manufacturers that do make vehicles, thats the case for most trees. I dont think more of the same vehicles that allready exist detract from the German tree much as the lineup composition is different (at least not more than the Strv 122 allready has) . Not to mention the top tier of trees is not the only defining features of trees. So while the themes of Leo 2 at top tier are similar between Sweden and Germany i think the lineup composition is different enough to make them both interesting trees in their own right.
And the vehicles are needed in terms of padding out a line of for a Norway sub-tree. So in terms of making a suggestion they are needed to show what is possible. And some of the vehicles are unavoidable if you want to make a line since they are mainstays of the Norwegian ground forces. But you can make due with like 3 leopards for a line. leo1A5, Leo2A4NO and Leo 2A8NO. Leo 1 being somewhat interesting upgrades of older models. 2A8 is copy-paste and 2A4NO is copypaste, tho less so than the 2A4 in the swedish tree allready.
You mean Leopard 1 and M48, 2 tanks… to add to the 3 tanks Sweden already has that are copy-paste; T-54, Strv 101, and Strv 81… 3 cold war tanks currently.
For a total of 5 cold war “copy-paste” tanks out of over 18
I’d just like to mention that Sweden could already get five more indigenous Strv 122 variants, four of which are service models and one of which is a prototype. On top of that the Strv 123A will be coming down the line in a few years and at least as of 2021 Finland was working on a 2A6 upgrade. Basically, Sweden doesn’t need Norway to have significantly more Leopard 2s than Germany currently has. More importantly, Sweden getting more 122s or Leopards from Norway, Denmark or anywhere else doesn’t stop Germany from getting Leopards as well. I don’t think anyone is arguing that Sweden needs to get these tanks right now or that they need to come before German equivalents, of which there are plenty, just that they would be cool to see at some point in the future. I personally don’t give a toss about top tier, I just like the Norwegian M24 and M113 variants.
I never said it needs to be worse. I implied it should be different, unique, and not just “better Germany”. Which is ultimately what you guys are aiming for
You might say “w-well we only want the unique stuff like that cute chaffee haha!” but we both know if that were the case you wouldn’t be talking about the potential 2A7 or 2A8
Edit: Actually let’s go even further, if you only wanted the unique vehicles you wouldn’t be asking for a subtree at all, just the unique vehicles themselves, since you already got a subtree. What makes it even funnier is that you got a subtree before Italy or Japan lmao
What, is there like a malicous conspiracy going on here to make sure Germany suffers?
If Sweden and Norway combined have more Leo variants than Germany then so be it. In that case give Germany some Netherlands vehicles. Again as other people have said in this thread, just because Germany doesn’t get something shouldn’t stop other tech tree’s from getting something.
I do want the cute chaffie tho.
There is clearly enough vehicles to make another subtree, so I say why not.
Makes sense since Scandinavians probably spend more money on the game than italians and japanese
If nothing else, most of the Norwegian vehicles can be used to fill out the lower and medium BR ranges, because it is pretty bad right now for the Swedes. It is very difficult making a proper lineup there.
CHANGES MADE
-Chevrolet 120 corrected and named 124mm
-M109A3GN changed to the upgraded short barreled verison M109A3GNM L/23
-M109A3GNM name changed to M109A3GNM L/39 (as it is the one with long barrel)
-DAF 2 pounder removed due to historical reasons, as much as it would be a good addition, it has to go, at least for now
But part of the whole argument is that these Leoaprd 2s aren’t Swedish or Norwegion at all; they are just customers, and realistically almost any leopard 2 variant can be added to the German tech tree because of that distinction. In fact a lot of the variants are tested in Germany by the German army anyway, and even though Sweden technically has the capability to completely create their own variants they still choose to rely on Rheinmetall and KMW for whatever reason they have.
