NORINCO VT-4 - Royal Thai Army's Agile MBT

[MoZi3]

@MAUSWAFFE

represent Thai military?

T84 plz, due to current situation, gaijin dont want to add Ukriane vehicles, the Thailand’s T84 will be the only T84, its unique enough

@MAUSWAFFE

might be fixed with the appearance of more VT-4 models.

through there are three Strv122s added into the game, the D tech was still get lost in L2 PSO, and wrong performance in L2A7V, and even 7 Chally2s cant make gaijin rework a right Chally DM

@MAUSWAFFE

that will likely move up further as more of its capabilities are introduced alongside other vehicles.

the VT4A1 is even a new Rank VIII vehicle, lets compare the VT4A1 with VT4 and Black Night with original Chally2, gaijin will only let it be 0.3BR lower than APS version, the 11.3 is the BR VT4 will get, it wont have a better environment, and also will get higher BR with VT4A1 together

[MAUSWAFFE]

@MoZi3

T84 plz, due to current situation, gaijin dont want to add Ukriane vehicles, the Thailand’s T84 will be the only T84, its unique enough

Of course it is, and should be the priority. But one Thai MBT is not enought for a Thai lineup, which would be nice to see.

@MoZi3

through there are three Strv122s added into the game, the D tech was still get lost in L2 PSO, and wrong performance in L2A7V, and even 7 Chally2s cant make gaijin rework a right Chally DM

I’d argue this is different, as Thai VT-4 is the worse one, while the Chinese get full capabilities. Meanwhile Strv 122 is an improved Leopard 2A5.
Challengers are plenty, but all in one tree, so it can’t be compared as they are all played by the same players, not different (thus more)

@MoZi3

the VT4A1 is even a new Rank VIII vehicle, lets compare the VT4A1 with VT4 and Black Night with original Chally2, gaijin will only let it be 0.3BR lower than APS version, the 11.3 is the BR VT4 will get, it wont have a better environment, and also will get higher BR with VT4A1 together

Thai VT-4 has no APS, yes. But it also has the weaker engine and ERA. I’d say that would allow it to be at 11.0. This is already far enough down to be a comfortable BR with the popularity of 10.0 premiums.
Meanwhile Type 10s that you compare it to are 11.7 and will move up further with more BRs being added, as they are already performing well, and that is ignoring the increase in capabilities they might get in the future.

I know I can only speak for myself, but with 11.0 being as nice as it is I can see myself enjoying the VT-4, and maybe trying out the Chinese tree for more similar, yet superior tanks.

[MoZi3]

@WreckingAres283

hull and turret contain composite armor with along with FY-4 ERA. Its 1.300hp water-cooled turbocharged diesel engine

The suggestion clearly does not mention weaker ERA and engines¯_(ツ)_/¯ so if this suggestion been passed to the developers for consideration, the relationship of VT4A1 and Thailand’s VT4 will more like BN and Chally2

[MAUSWAFFE]

You’re right about the engine, I didn’t know the VT-4A1 had only 1300hp in game when a 1500hp engine would be available in reality.

But for the ERA I think the Thai tank would use FY-2, not FY-4.

Spoiler

Thai VT-4

Chinese VT-4 with FY-4, note how it appears much thicker than the ERA on the Thai tank.

[MekboyVN_068]

Actually, all VT-4 variants that served in Thailand, Pakistan and Nigeria plus the promotion VT-4A1 (which is version Gaijin uses) should have 1200HP, 1500 is the one that if the customer want but right now, none of the countries who bought it decide to upgrade or purchase new powperpack.

[MAUSWAFFE]

The Thai tanks use a 1200hp engine.

I was referring to the Chinese VT-4A1, which I thought had the 1500hp engine.

[MekboyVN_068]

Strange for me though, IIRC only Pakistan VT-4P acccess to 1300HP, Thai version it slight inferior interm of engine, cannon and ERA option, need to check again.

[Aiden1128]

@MoZi3

First the Thailand’s VT4 is not good enough, and the T84 has same style as VT4 but has better protective ability, faster loader, the only advantage of VT4 may be the round it shoot, cause Thailand’s T84 has no 3BM60, but type10 APFSDS is much better than DTC10-125, so if you want to use high pen rounds, just use japanese tanks.
And VT4’s maneuverability cant be a advantage cause T84 can do well too, and Type10 or TKX is better than VT4.
Last is that the bad performance of VT4 may let the people who played it think that chinese tank is not good, then they may give up to grind the chinaTT, the number of player trun to smaller, that means gaijin may less valued to chinaTT or chinese vehicles.

First of all, I don’t think many people care about how well the Thai VT4 performs in comparison to the Oplot-T or Type 90/10. Of course we want it to perform realistically, and we’ll try to get good changes made (Just as we would for any other vehicle in the JP TT). We have a good set of people with solid resources, so I’m confident we’ll be able to help improve the vehicle if it comes to the tree. We’ve been working to get the JP MBTs improved for years now, and I’m sure people will enjoy having a new vehicle to study and fix.

@withID

Your words make sense if VT-4 is a competitive MBT in Warthunder
But the truth is that the current VT-4 is one of the worst top-tier tanks in WT.
More currently VT-4 can only strengthen the false perceptions that Chinese MBT is weak
It’s not a good idea to let shit go everywhere

What I said above. Also, I think people who dislike Chinese vehicles IRL, probably have IRL reasons to do so. Whether it’s a disagreement over how the vehicles are designed, or purely political reasons. I could be wrong though.

[soviet_MoonMan]

@MoZi3

The suggestion clearly does not mention weaker ERA and engines

Doesn’t matter if the suggestion forgot to mention it or not when we already have good sources that prove the vehicle has a 1200hp engine, and we can only see FY-2 on the hull and no FY-4

[soviet_MoonMan]

@MAUSWAFFE

You’re right about the engine, I didn’t know the VT-4A1 had only 1300hp in game when a 1500hp engine would be available in reality.

The 1500 hp engine was never installed, and has never even been tested for the VT-4. It’s just a claim that was made by some engineer as a possible future proposal, and people have run with it as if it’s gospel for some reason. Part of the problem is that the Chinese use a different transmission for the VT-4 than the ZTZ-99A, so you couldn’t simply just slap a new 1500hp engine in, but would also have to modify/change the transmission, and then make more room for the new transmission.

[AVROVULCANXH558]

@mz_14_Gelzooz

so the VT-4 should not appear in other tech trees other than China

Should all Shermans be in the US TT then?

[Ibash_Aminoas]

all Abrams should be in TT in the United States
don’t let the tragedy in Germany happen again

[MAUSWAFFE]

It very much won’t happen again.

The exported Abrams are inherently lower performing than the US Abrams. Just like the Thai VT-4 is lower performing than the Chinese Type 99 or VT-4A1 found in the Chinese tree right now.

The issue people see about the Leopard/Strv 122 is that they are upgraded, and often regarded as better. This leads many to see a “better German top tier” in Sweden.

So no, this situation is very much akin to the Sherman situation, rather than the Germany/Sweden situation.

[近卫105柳京守一般兵]

The reason why we Chinese people do not want Thailand’s VT4 to appear in the Japanese technology tree is largely due to political reasons (historical factors). The core of this problem for Chinese players is never in the car, but the country.

[warabimotis]

It boils down to being “selfish.” If that’s allowed, all Japanese weapons in the Chinese tree should be removed.
(For some reason this post seems to have been hidden. Did I do something wrong?)

[Colerend]

This reason doesn’t make sense because VT-4 is an export tank.

[MAUSWAFFE]

But then again, so far subtrees have just included vehicles used by that nation. The VT-4 is just another vehicle Thailand used, so within the confines of the game additions like it are the norm. However excluding exports of a specific nation is trying to break that norm.

I wouldn’t call this situation selfish though, since there is nothing to gain from others not receiving something, considering that either way China will get their own VT-4 anyways.

[山_田_凉]

F16 and M60 are Chinese used vehicles, exported to Taiwan province. So it is not equivalent.

[MAUSWAFFE]

@山_田_凉

F16 and M60 are Chinese used vehicles, exported to Taiwan province. So it is not equivalent.

And the VT-4 is a Thai used vehicle, exported to Thailand. They are very much equivalent.

A subnation is a definitive place for that nation. If there is a Thai subtree that is equivalent to that tree being a Thai tree and all Thai vehicles may go there.

Similarly China may also receive multiple nation subtrees in the future if rumors are to be believed, and would then receive their vehicles regardless of origin as well.

[MAUSWAFFE]

@山_田_凉

Ok, suggest a Abrams for USSR because Iraq used it. Watch the reactions of US mains then.

If there is a subtree then yes, that would be how it works. Though I find it unlikely for the USSR tree to receive a subtree anytime soon. You might see an M1A2T Abrams for the Chinese tree though, being exported to Taiwan.

@山_田_凉

There are usually 1 degrees of separation. In this case, it is 2. Thailand is not especially related to Japan in the first place, Chinese vehicles less so.

Right now I’d agree, without a subtree there is no reason for Thai VT-4 going to Japan.

Though it seems Gaijin is planning a regional SEA subtree of what is most likely the predominently western equipped nations, Thailand is likely one of those and considering the F-5 that makes it even more likely. My guess is Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand, though it’s just a guess, since they go well together and generally bring the tree up to about the amount of potential France has with BeNeLux.

Similarly though, recent interview with BVVD has spread some information on China as well, who will likely get a similar multi nation subtree. I’d guess Pakistan and Bangladesh, maybe Myanmar and Vietnam as well, though I don’t know too much about possible subtree nations for China and probably forgot some options.