I don’t understand why people think it would be such a problem? China already has a superior version of this vehicle. As for Chinese vehicles being in a Japanese tree, do I have to remind you all of what Chinese lower tiers are composed off? It’s simply hypocritical to be angry at the fact that a Chinese vehicle would be in Japanese tree. Even more if it’s a vehicle meant for export.
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Difference comes from the point of view. You look at it as a Chinese vehicle being in a Japanese tree. I look at it as a Thai vehicle being in a Japanese tree. The same way I look at Finnish T-34 in a Swedish tree.
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This actually explains why a lot of people cannot get why this is offending. It can be viewed as a Thai vehicle being in a Japanese tree so that there seems to be no problem here.
However, only looking it as a Thai vehicle being in a Japanese tree won’t make the problem disappear. It doesn’t change the fact that it is a Chinese vehicle being in a Japanese tree. It only serves as an excuse to avoid the problem.
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If this vehicle is to become the final top vehicle in the China tree, it would be strange for it to be placed in the Japan tree via Thailand, and I would not agree with that either. However, the fact is that China has several tanks more powerful than this, so I don’t think there is any reason to oppose it.
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Gaijin will put vehicles wherever they want.
Chi-Ha is in China, VT-4 will go in Thailand.
As expected of their current behavior @MAUSWAFFE
As of nothing has been set in stone; The Thai Sub tech tree has neither come or confirmed by Gaijin, speculation and suggestion are the only things we can do here. As I stated before, I do believe that VT-4 would fit in nicely within CN Tech tree as a folder vehicle or a premium. After all, the least controversial the better, Thailand, as a sub tree, may provide the JP Tech Tree with Oplot while VT-4 goes to CN.
Personally, I would love if we have this kind of discussion civilly and mindful about it (This kind of discussion can get heated quite easily) , I don’t really want to see the community fighting each other. So, please, be considerate of each other, and think of each other; some Chinese players may not want to see their vehicles in other tech tree, especially JP due to the history between 2 nation while some players want it to be there as a part of Thai Sub Tech Tree to fulfill the line up or because of the similar lens used in adding T-80U to Sweden Tech Tree, as another vehicle for the tech tree. Both of the reasons are quite understandable, in my opinion, so please be considerate and understanding, not hauling insults and so on
(^-^)
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I still believe that a Thai subtree should allow all Thai vehicles. Where they originated should be exactly as little of an issue as it is for other subtrees and national trees in the game currently. However I also believe that China should receive their own VT-4, as it is a Chinese tank. For that I suggest a Pakistani tank, as it would possibly bring a subtree to China like Thailand would to Japan.
Maybe one point that hasn’t been brought up yet would be decals, as subtrees allow for national decals. This might need to be changed for a Thai VT-4 to prevent creating the issue that many players seem to see in it. Additionally, similar to American tanks for Italy, Thai markings could be permanently added to the vehicle.
But in the end, even with a subtree, it is Gaijins decision to add the tank or not. We could see the subtree and never see the tank in it. It would not make a difference as no subtree currently has all vehicles that nation offered.
Either way I’d be happy to see a Thai subtree no matter if with or without VT-4.
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China is one of the largest weapon exporters in the world. This tank wasn’t meant for service in the PLA. It was meant for export. The fact that this vehicle could be in other tech tree shouldn’t surprise anybody. Sure you had your beef with Japan but you operated their stuff too. US was a enemy of Japan during WW2 and yet you see them rocking in American vehicles too. If someone suggested a variant of Type-59. Would you say that China needs to get this specific variant or something different? There are over 50 versions of that damn thing. Do you think your country not seeing one variant of the vehicle that you pretty much now have is a tragedy?
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You shouldn’t treat your vehicles being in some other tree as some sort of a heresy.
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I do still think they should get a VT-4 no matter what. Adding a Pakistani VT-4 for China would be the best in my opinion, as then both would be part of a subtree, but a chinese one as they have done for other export tanks would work too.
I absolutely support the Thai VT-4 being in the Thai subtree, but China has a claim on their VT-4 as well since they developed it in the first place.
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Would be a nice event vehicle or premium I suppose
This problem applies to other Chinese vehicles in Thailand use as well. In my opinion ,historical reasons shouldn’t even be a problem. Both nations did some evil and immoral things in the past(one is doing them to this day) but that’s behind us. Today both of them are in some sort of a neutral relations so I don’t think having some Chinese vehicle in a Japanese tech tree should be a problem. Especially when China has better versions of these vehicles.
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I doubt that weather Japanese player can get used to VT-4 if there is one in Japan tech tree.
I really think that VT-4 performance is much more poorer than any Japanese MBT in 11.7 and 11.0 where the Japanese have their 4s reload.
Someone keeps on saying that Thai VT-4 in Japan tech would make a difference, but considering the current performance of VT-4 in the game, it’s really ridiculous.
Can not agree on the addition of Thai VT-4 in Japan tech, for it does not add any characteristics to Japan tech and even makes China tech more featureless
If VT-4 is stronger than TKX and type 10, I will agree on Thai VT-4 in Japan tech XD.
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At least your points are more valid rather then “but muh china tech” in a way i can agree to what you said
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you got the point, it cant make JapanTT better but it will make ChinaTT worse
I really don’t see that logic. Let’s see what it does to either tree:
Japan: Adds a vehicle that, while maybe a worse fit for the meta that current MBTs, fills a different role and provides a new gameplay style. It also allows for more complete Thai lineups in the advent of a subtree.
If you don’t care about it, you have the option to ignore it, but it is an improvement for everyone interested in it.
China: It does not remove anything. With the VT-4 being a Chinese designed tank it is nearly guaranteed they will receive it at the same time. It shows the export success of the nation in game in a way that (unlike the Swedish Strv 122 for example) adds the worst possible layout with the weaker ERA and engine options.
A side benefit here is that more VT-4s would equal more people playing them, which could lead to it moving up in priority for fixes it does seem to need.
So the way I see it it improves both trees.
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First the Thailand’s VT4 is not good enough, and the T84 has same style as VT4 but has better protective ability, faster loader, the only advantage of VT4 may be the round it shoot, cause Thailand’s T84 has no 3BM60, but type10 APFSDS is much better than DTC10-125, so if you want to use high pen rounds, just use japanese tanks.
And VT4’s maneuverability cant be a advantage cause T84 can do well too, and Type10 or TKX is better than VT4.
Last is that the bad performance of VT4 may let the people who played it think that chinese tank is not good, then they may give up to grind the chinaTT, the number of player trun to smaller, that means gaijin may less valued to chinaTT or chinese vehicles.
Your words make sense if VT-4 is a competitive MBT in Warthunder
But the truth is that the current VT-4 is one of the worst top-tier tanks in WT.
More currently VT-4 can only strengthen the false perceptions that Chinese MBT is weak
It’s not a good idea to let shit go everywhere
Not good enough to represent Thai military? Because that is the only reason it’s even suggested at all.
The VT-4 compared to the T-84 sacrifices armor for firepower, while still being a decently well rounded tank. The loader speed from what I understand is one of the many inaccuracies of the current VT-4 in the Chinese tree that might be fixed with the appearance of more VT-4 models.
It could serve as a good backup to the T-84 that is especially valuable to those players that want to form Thai lineups without having to rely on Japanese tanks.
Type 10 APFSDS is also exclusively used on a tank at the very top pf the BRs, that will likely move up further as more of its capabilities are introduced alongside other vehicles.
Again, at a different BR that will only separage further over time.
Compared to those the VT-4 is a well rounded tank with decent mobility, armor and firepower, not specializing in either of these fields, giving it a different playstyle.
It is not supposed to be better, just different and (most importantly) Thai.
I doubt that many people play Japan over China, and those few that do don’t play China anyways.
However with the VT-4 being spread around more, it will also be played more. This means that the bad performance of the tank is more likely to be fixed, which would also benefit the Chinese tree.
The VT-4 is also far from the best Chinese tank, and you compare it to 11.7 top tier tanks. That’s like saying you won’t play Germany because your Swedish Strv121 isn’t the best at 11.7.
It doesn’t need to, because it’s not an 11.7 tank, and China has a lot of superior tanks to offer. If anything, the Thai VT-4 could get more players interested in Chinese vehicles and the Chinese tree as a whole. If they enjoy Thai VT-4, they know that Chinese vehicles are better than it and might decide to try those.
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I just hope more VT-4s give Gaijin a reason to fix it quickly. Having it in more trees allows Gaijin to affect more players with the fix with the same effort, so they might do it sooner.
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