Sometimes, even when I am at +0.0 BR I do not spawn the most heavy or highest BR tank in my lineup, because the map would put it at a disadvantage. The MM only accounts for highest BR in the lineup, but does not force you to spawn them.
Could also be a freak accident with your team having their highest BR vehicles all on crew lock or something plus the kind of map you have gotten discouraged people to spawn certain tanks.
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Facepalm If you are in a 6.7 there is a possibility of being up-tiered to 7.3, with 7.7’s being down-tiered into it.
The whole point is that you’re never gonna magically get a match of only 6.7. It just isn’t likely. Even if you do, your gonna be in queue for awhile.
He is not talking about matches where you and some other players are 6.7, and some players are 7.7, on both teams. That would be kind of fair, since the 7.7 guys are kind of evenly spread across the teams.
He talks about some matches that happen from time to time, where blue team is neraly all 6.7, and red team is neraly all 7.3 and 7.7. This leads to one team having a big advantage.
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You mean the rare ones that don’t often occur. At least I never had one and i’m often playing on all servers. So my bad.
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For some reason it occurs quite often in naval top tier, since there is a very low match size from time to time, and then you can get constellations like that:
Team A: 4 players with 6.3 ww1 battleships
Team B: 3 players with 6.3 ww1 battleships
1 player with a 7.0 Scharnhorst.
The Scharnhorst is able to kill the entire enemy team, thats how broken this ship is. If the other team would have a good 7.0 ship like an USS Alaska, then it would be fair again, it can keep the Scharnhorst in check, or even defeat it maybe.
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Huh.
No one is obliged to spawn in their top BR vehicle.
same problem in sweden 10.7, br japan instantly play in 10.7 with 11.3 vehicles because other nations no have 11.3 br only america + enemy team is with 11.3 and machmakind add other 11.7 br tanks why no… 10.7 is really fair play vs fuji,type90 and t80 u +more competitive spaas how to balanc the br ? max 0.3 -0.4 uptiered…
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The matchmaker only uses one rule: no more than 4 players in one team can have the maximum BR in the battle.
The matchmaker creates a match of specific bracket, e.g. 3.0 - 4.0 and then try to find 32 players from this area. The only rule is, it can take maximum 8 players (4 players per team) from top BR, which is 4.0 BR in this case.
If the matchmaker manages to find 8 players with 4.0 BR vehicles everything will work “fine”, because both teams will get 4 top BR players (which is balanced). All other players will be put randomly, so the rest of the team still might not be balanced, but that’s a different story.
The problem starts when the matchmaker only finds e.g. 4 players of top BR. Let’s use the same example as above, 3.0 - 4.0 BR battle, but only 4 players from 32 are at 4.0 BR. Then the matchmaker will put them randomly, so possible options are:
- Team 1: 4 x 4.0 BR players; Team 2: 0 x 4.0 BR players
- Team 1: 3 x 4.0 BR players; Team 2: 1 x 4.0 BR players
- Team 1: 2 x 4.0 BR players; Team 2: 2 x 4.0 BR players
- Team 1: 1 x 4.0 BR players; Team 2: 3 x 4.0 BR players
- Team 1: 0 x 4.0 BR players; Team 2: 4 x 4.0 BR players
It is completely random which scenario the battle will get. All of these scenarios have the same chance to happen. If the first or last scenario happens, it’s usually a one-sided battle.
You see this problem so often in Naval, because there are less players in the queue, so it’s less likely to find 8 players at top BR to put them into battles.
In my opinion the matchmaker in War Thunder is terrible, but unfortunately the devs don’t want to touch it. They call this variety and they mentioned a few times in the past that they actually like the current system.
BTW: You can also check my previous post: Gaijin wtf - #23 by _Poul
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Great post and explanation, correlates with my experience in naval, thanks.
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interesting in my screenshoot more then 4 player with no 10.7 br tanks…
Everyone can spawn what they want. If someone creates a lineup of 9.0 - 10.7 vehicles, for the matchmaker this person still has 10.7 BR.
The fact so many players decided to spawn lower BR vehicles in your battle is not really a matchmaker problem, it’s a much deeper problem with lineups and the lack of restrictions on what you can take to the battle.
Imagine if 10 players in your team decided to take 10.7 and 1.0 BR tanks in the same lineup, and they all decided to spawn 1.0 tank first. You can’t blame the matchmaker for this, it obviously can’t count these players as 1.0, because it doesn’t know which vehicles they will spawn (and you don’t want to see 10.7 vehicles in 1.0 battle, right?).
I would personally prefer to see some lineup restrictions and ability to spawn the same vehicle two times (without using a backup, this would stay as the third spawn option). But that’s just my opinion and it doesn’t really matter. The reality is, you can spawn 1.0 BR vehicle in 10.7 BR battle in War Thunder, nothing stops you from doing it.
IMO another issue with WT matchmaker is it doesn’t take into count vehicle class. So it can happen that highest BR might be for some SPAA or light tanks and those will still be counted into 4 vehicles with top BR. While on the other side top 4 might be heavy or medium tanks.
Thanks, this generally how I thought the matchmaking works but its nice to see it written out like this. I will say that the distributions of the number of top BR players will probably not be completely random due to differing numbers of players at different BRs in queue for all of the nations. For example with the Maus event being somewhat recent and the PzH 2000 just having come out there are probably a lot more players playing 7.7 Germany than 7.7 America which are practically never on the same team meaning American teams in 6.7-7.7 matches are much more likely to have no 7.7 vehicles.
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Thats kind of what I was getting at by saying there is a lack of US light vehicles between 7.0 and 8.0 meaning players with an 7.7 lineup could have spawned the T92 which is at 7.0 (because it was a very large map) which there were a lot of and then left after one death or spawned another T92 or other lower BR tank.
You are correct. I usually look at things from Arcade perspective, because I simply play there. The matchmaker is a bit more complicated in Realistic scenario, where it also has to take into consideration nations. So it has to take x number of players (usually 16) from specific nations vs the same number of players from other nations. So there is even higher chance that something will go wrong with the balance.
I currently play Air Realistic, because of the event (I normally don’t play there, but it’s easier to complete the event in this game mode). This is the battle I had today:
Spoiler
It is pretty funny that the matchmaker only put one 8.0 BR player in my team, and everyone else was 7.0 BR. While the enemy team had four 8.0 BR players plus five additional 7.3 BR players.
Battles like these perfectly demonstrate how the matchmaker works. It doesn’t care about the average BR of players, it doesn’t care about vehicle types, it only cares about battle BR range (in this case 7.0-8.0 BR battle) and maximum 4 players at the top BR (in this case 8.0 BR) in one team. Everything else is just random and depends on the players who are in the queue at a given time.
Some time ago the devs said that for them the most important thing is the waiting time in the queue, and their perfect matchmaker would have no waiting time at all. I think this explains very well why the matchmaker in the game works this way.
I would prefer to wait in the queue longer and get closer battle, balanced by players BRs, vehicle types, maybe even players skill (e.g. based on their relative position). But that’s me, and the truth is that no one cares about my opinion.
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You can`t face 9.7s in a 7.7 lineup, but ok
AB.
MiG-21 (R-13-300) is 9.0 in AB, and can be downtiered to 8.7.
This thread is about RB though.
AB is just wild, isn’t even the A2D 9.0 there?
Yeah, and the Sea Vixen is 8.0 [Can be downtiered to 7.7].
Its goofy but fun.